Work Session Meeting May 13, 2024 MINUTES Work Session Monday, May 13, 2024 @ 2:55 PM City Council Chambers, City Hall PRESENT: Councilor Johana Bencomo, Councilor Yvonne Flores, Councilor Becki Graham, Councilor Becky Corran, Mayor Eric Enriquez, Councilor Cassie McClure, and Councilor William Mattiace ABSENT: 1. AGENDA ITEM 1.1 LAS CRUCES LIGHT PROGRAM FIRST YEAR RESULTS. Chief Jason Smith, LCFD introduced the topic. Battalion Chief Matthew Hiles, MIH LCFD gave an overhead presentation. Chief Jason Smith continued the overhead presentation. Councilor Corran said it sounds like at the moment immediate short term funding requests are to increase capacity during the times when LIGHT already exists, right? That would be reducing the number of pending calls which you allude to. Do you have a similar sense of what it would mean to expand the hours of service and what would be the needs and what’s the long-term plan for doing that, potentially? It sounds like it’s needed, in the immediate short term, to expand the capacity during the day. But what would those look like and when? I’m very excited for you all to keep on rocking, I guess. So, I’m just curious if you can outline some of, the even longer sort of future plans? Chief Jason Smith said I’ll try to capture what we’re going to be looking at in determining if I may like you were talking about after hours, overnight going to a 24 hour a day type model. If that’s correct on this type of graph, what we’d want to see is Page 1 of 11 that call demand, that demand for service increase overnight. So, once we get past those operating hours for they’re still to be calls within our call types that are happening that we need that social work and co-response model too, that’ll be the trigger for it. Also, we have to find employees who are outside of the fire service that are willing to do shift work, graveyard, things like that to fill in those positions. I hope that was giving you the data point we’re going to look at. Councilor Corran said it’s helpful. I just wonder is it possible that this is like a cyclical data point where you aren’t available, so therefore people aren’t dispatched, and the call is not categorized in the way that would be most useful and is there room to have better data in that area? Chief Jason Smith said we did work with our dispatch center on getting those call types as well as times where PD’s on the call and it’s a direct request for LIGHT. This chart here shows both the pending calls, as well as the calls outside of the service hours. You can see that they are dropping down on an annualized basis, well below one an hour. Councilor Bencomo said I feel like I cheated a little bit because I got to hang out with the LIGHT Team last week on Wednesday. So, I got to pick their brain on so many of these things. I just feel tremendously grateful for allowing me to come hangout with you and to tag along and just for talking with me. Obviously while we waited for a call to be dispatched on, I just sat and talked with them. Then I guess both fortunately and unfortunately there was a call and I got to see them in action and as Allison and Mike, just thinking about it makes me want to cry a little bit because I was just really impressed. It was actually a call where the officer was dispatched, an officer called Project LIGHT to the scene, and they ended up transporting this person to Santa Teresa, this person wanted to go to the PEAK, and they transported them to there. Like that is the level of care that Project LIGHT is providing to our community, and I’m just really impressed. I will repeat this over and over because I think repetition is key but Project LIGHT to me has always been about pairing the right first responder to the right emergency. I think we’re more than a year out and I just think we’ve shown the success of that and the intentionality behind that and how effective that is. Caring for people who are in distress and pairing the right person to that distress. I know that dispatch is hiring a lot of new folks. I’m really excited that they’re not being hired where this is the norm, right. Because I imagine it was a little difficult at first for dispatch to call in LIGHT or whatever. Can you just talk about that Chief, the growth of the partnership with dispatch? It is exciting that these folks will now come into a place where just LIGHT has always existed and I think that will be a really good thing. Chief Jason Smith said I can try I don’t know if I can speak very well to the efforts at dispatch. But one of the things we did when we constructed this team and how we would respond. It was important for us to work within the frame of mind that our dispatchers already have, and they were already categorizing these call types as suicidal ideations, suicide attempts, behavioral issues. So, we built that on the backend so it would automatically make that recommendation, for the dispatcher. So as soon as LIGHT 1, LIGHT 2 is in service and that call type comes in, that team is already being recommended by the CAD. So, it took a little bit of that person effort out Page 2 of 11 of it, to remember there’s this resource I could tag on to this response. So, we built it that way. I do know as we transitioned to the 988 system, that our dispatchers are doing a lot more work of trying to screen these calls and figure out through their algorithm if that call, that person who needs help, can be sent through the 988 system. Although sometimes that occurs, I don’t have that their numbers with me to refer to as how many times it’s been in the last year. But we are trying to really build this as tiered system as we did for EMS response, where if 988 somebody on the phone if a scheduled follow up will work that’s great. But if the person is in the need of immediate help, an immediate mental crisis then we want our LIGHT Team professionals to go there, and our dispatch center has been supportive of that. Councilor Bencomo said I think that one of the conversations we had was about 988 and Paul Ford was there, and he was like 911 also took a really long time for people get the hang of, right? I don’t know about that; I think 911 has always been a thing while I’ve been alive. But 988 is going to take some time, right. I think it’s going to take some time for our community to really grasp on to what 988 could be, people are so used to calling 911 in any moment of distress, right. So, I think we have a lot of work to do there as well. Allison, I have some questions for you that I hope you can expand on because I think it’s really important for my colleagues to hear from as well. Because I also talked to them about as well, the potential for growth especially outside of what we have right now. You brought up some really great points and I think this is why we always, you know I committed to them if I advocate for an expansion of growth that it will only be because they’re advocating for it as well. Allison and the others, Mindy and Korina are the social workers on the ground and they’re the ones saying, “our calls are taking two hours” and there is so much emotional labor that goes into one of these calls, that perhaps keeping firefighter hours is not conducive to that kind of work, right. I think you made some really good points around that but also around Healthcare Providers keep working hours, so just some of those things, can you expand on those? Allison Stoner, Social Worker LCFD LIGHT Program said to speak to your question I would first just like to set a little bit of context. So, we did reference that three of our call types are overdoses, behavioral issues which can be anything from anxiety to psychosis and everything in between. What is included in a behavioral issue and the way a behavioral issue gets dispatched, it can be so many things. We’re also responding to suicidal ideations, suicide attempts, CPR’s and death. So, the intention of Project LIGHT as we look at it through numbers on a screen, it’s hard to fully encapsulate the worth and the benefit and the healing that is really being offered on these calls, it’s intense, right? We have the opportunity to walk into often times the most difficult moment of somebody’s life and really what our job is, is to be attuned to that, it’s to not look away, it’s to say that we’re here and we’re not afraid of the fear, the pain, the suffering and to be present from the moment that we arrive to the moment that we either get somebody to the next level of care and/or we say we’ve de-escalated this crisis, and we can step away. I think what Chief Smith spoke to was we’re looking to hire a coordinator because what we experience with our LIGHT Teams right now, we currently have one team operating at a time. Which means that we have one social worker operating at a time and what you see within the fire service is that you have crews of 3,4 sometimes up to 6 people that are getting dispatched to a medical issue. We have one social worker responding and we’re often the social Page 3 of 11 worker on these calls, when we are the primary team responding, it’s often the weight of that call is usually the responsibility of the social worker, and it should be. But when we do start to look at are we ever going to get to something like a 24-hour model or maybe a 48, 96 like our fire crews are currently operating. I think we’re going to need to see more support for that to be worthwhile and what I spoke to when we were having our conversation that one personally, I never expected to be a social worker working in the 911 system, that will continue to be the surprise and the honor of my life. But I have a really hard time imagining being on a shift for 40 hours and then getting called to a suicidal ideation, where I’m solely responsible for that patient’s wellbeing. So, I think that those are in addition to the need of the community, which of course is an absolute priority. We want to make sure our teams are supported to provide that level of care. Where I am coming from at this moment, we don’t have the full support to be able to say our expectation is for a LIGHT Team to run 48 hours and I’m going to be solely responsible for about 70 percent of that work. Councilor Bencomo asked can you just also talk about the barrier of the Healthcare Providers? After hours it just also limits your options. Allison Stoner said one of my favorite numbers to reflect to you all when we talk about the work of LIGHT is about 63 percent of the time, we being a LIGHT Team is transporting to something that is not the Emergency Department. That could be Mesilla Valley Hospital, Peak Hospital for an inpatient assessment. That could be that we call up somebody’s therapist and say your patient is having a crisis, do you have the capacity to see them for a crisis appointment at this time. That could be we transport to that. It could be that we transport to any sort of safe location which that could be The Community of Hope, The Crisis Triage Center when it was available and hopefully will continue to be available in the future. So, we are looking for those alternative options once we get out of kind of the regular working business hours, we can still provide transportation to the Emergency Department. We can still provide transportation to inpatient hospitals for assessment. But we do lose those kind of alternative care transports and so then we sort of just again once we’re looking at 911 calls for these specific types of calls, we do lose some of our options when most services close at 5:00. Councilor Bencomo said actually I will say this about the co-response model. I am someone who has been really an advocate for eventually getting to a place where we separate the two. But in my conversations with all of you I think again it’s really easy to philosophize about something when you’re removed from the issue. But just hearing from Allison and Mike around how important the co-response model has been, you just never know what that call is going to be like, whether it was a little bit dramatized in the notes and that person just needed to vent and be heard or whether it truly was something that a little bit worse that absolutely needed PD involvement. I just again really want to thank you for providing that perspective to me. Again, it is easy to be up here and be like this is how things should be but listening to you about the barriers and these issues that you’re raising it’s just so, so critical, so thank you very much. As I left unfortunately they had to take someone to Santa Teresa and so the officer gave me a ride back to the station and I was talking to Paul Ford a little bit afterwards, as I’ve been reflecting on it I feel like a gained so much from our conversation and I know you are really, really busy and I know that you all keep Page 4 of 11 incredibly busy schedules while you’re on the clock. I guess I would have a little bit of an ask around, it’s really about consulting around some policies. I left feeling like you all have so much on the ground experience about folks who are unhoused, about overdoses that I just would really love it if you were in rooms when we’re talking about shopping cart ordinances, when we’re talking about ordinances dealing with our unhoused community. I hope that you’re part of this Advisory Council and that you having these conversations with the Opioid Settlement. Well, it felt like really important for me to name that today Chief, that I think this team has so much knowledge, wisdom and information to share that I hope they’re being tapped into and maybe that’s for Ikani as well, I hope they’re being tapped into for consulting on certain policies that we’re considering. Chief Jason Smith said I agree and there are some opportunities where our team and our resources within the fire department are looked over or passed up. We are more than just displaying a fire truck. We have a lot of great people, a lot of great experience, a lot of knowledge and capability and capacity to contribute. I will say that for the Advisory Committee I do not believe that, sorry if I’m speaking out of turn. But I don’t believe that anybody from the Public Safety realm on the Advisory Committee for the Opioid Settlement. We are one of the focus groups but there is nobody representing our experience on that Advisory Panel. If there are other areas where our team, BC Hiles or any of our Social Workers can assist and lend a different lens to the conversation or the issue, we are ready to serve. Councilor Bencomo said I really believe that as well. I left just so grateful and impressed by the folks I got to speak with that day. I was just at the NMSU School of Social Work Hooding Ceremony. There was 80 MSW’s graduating and 47 BSW’s and the program group grew 20 percent for next year, so we got to go recruit some folks, I think. Councilor McClure asked but do you ever expect them to call 911 and say I’d like to see Project LIGHT, people actually calling for that? BC Matthew Hiles said yes it does happen, I couldn’t give you an exact number or anything. But it is a specific request from somebody going in crisis and maybe it’s not from that individual but maybe it could be someone that individual’s with, a reporting party that we need the LIGHT Team, that’s who we need, that’s who we want. Councilor McClure said for us I think we get a lot of calls of doing something and a lot of the times that is outside the realm of what we can do, but it’s what you guys do. I wish we would talk a little bit more. I feel like you’re the bright spots that we don’t really talk about in the ways we could. A lot of the times when I’m going out and say hey there’s Project LIGHT and people look at me with blank faces, we should not be doing that. Because they are looking for resources kind of like that Mom who emailed all of us to say, “My kiddo is in crisis, what can I do?” So, I would like to be able to, so that’s my ask I have spoken to the City Manager already. That we tell your guys’ stories as much as we can get some of the outcomes told. I would love to do that too because this is one of the brightest things we’re doing right now, I think personally. Thank you for the work you’re doing. Page 5 of 11 BC Matthew Hiles said the job they do is difficult, it’s unique again, it’s one of a kind nationwide, this isn’t common nationwide. You have to have the right people and you have to pair the right teams and we have the right people; we’ve paired the right teams. They’re the boots on the ground, they’re the ones that make it happen, they’re the ones that go and do the work. They’re the ones that bear that burden when the call is over and it’s hard, it’s difficult. Mental Health is a serious issue, it’s a crisis and they’re seeing it day in and day out every time they show up and when they show up, they show up full force. I couldn’t be more proud of these teams and that also speaks for MIH because they also step in and fill whenever a LIGHT team member couldn’t make it that day. To congratulate Allison again on her LCSW Certification. I want to also mention that our other two Social Workers have also achieved the status of LCSW. So that’s quite an achievement personally in their profession, but to have that under our roof and our programs, for our City is huge, it’s very huge. So, my hat’s off to them for all the hard work they do and again I couldn’t be more luckier. Mayor Enriquez said congratulations Allison and responding alone is something I used to say too when I was in prevention. But things have changed, it’s not really prevention it’s community risk reduction, so what you all are doing now it’s tremendous, thank you BC Hiles, Chief Smith. You mentioned the stakeholders. I know like you mentioned Las Cruces Public Schools, I think it was on number 5 where so many under 19 years of age. So again, you work with the schools so they’re probably in the system with either a Counselor or Social Worker or just kind of figuring out what’s going on, like what triggered it or if they come in on an after-hour call. They’re in the system with the schools, right? So, you have that working relationship with the schools? BC Hiles said we do have a working relationship with the schools. As far as what they’re in the system for being it’s an acute crisis at the moment I don’t have a direct answer for that. I don’t know if Allison can highlight that a little for me, since she is actually the one that responds to them and gets to speak to the members of the staff at school. Allison Stoner said to speak a little bit to our age breakdown specifically what we see in schools. I will also preface with that over the past probably three, four, six months we’ve seen more assets being put into the schools. I know FYI has staff in a few schools now but when LIGHT first started, we were being very heavily utilized by School Resource Officers. I mean again still within the school system can be such a wide range, it could be a student that said I’m feeling suicidal, maybe they made threats to harm themselves or others. I think this is my opportunity to speak to the partnership we have the Las Cruces Police Department and the School Resource Officers saying we might have one way that we could handle this situation but instead they’re saying that we also know what LIGHT provides. We understand the way the LIGHT Program works. We understand that we might not be the most equipped to address this situation and that is a lot of what we get pulled into schools for is by School Resource Officers saying, “assessing this situation I think that this kiddo needs a higher level of care”. I think that there might be things going on in the home that they haven’t wanted to share with me, as the School Resource Officer. That’s a lot of what we’re seeing within the school system. I will also say just for the 0 – 18 years Page 6 of 11 range we also we just see a lot of high acuity calls coming from homes and a lot of response for youth who are having suicidal ideation, homicidal ideation and just some really big behaviors and a lot of times you think about the stress that puts on the family system whatever that family system looks like. It really is often times somebody just calling 911 saying “I don’t know what else to do”. I know there might not be a simple solution. But we do see a lot of calls for youth specifically from both the schools and from just within the community of not knowing the next steps, how to resource those kids with the help that they need. Mayor Enriquez said the other thing I was going to mention was Chief Smith you know you mentioned like being overlooked or passed by and not getting the information. One of those is the Triage Center that is something that was available, then not available. But moving forward we really like to have the fire department’s opinion on how we would really help the LIGHT Program more, as opposed to how it was used before. But how can we improve on that and make sure that we get that to the County and to their coordinators or directors to see what contract goes into it and how it can benefit what you all have been doing. Chief Jason Smith said on that front I know that BC Hiles as well as the rest of our LIGHT Team and MIH are talking with Providers and our Partners, who will be looking at reopening the CTC in the next few months. So they are definitely working together and sharing those lessons learned from the previous administration of the building. Mayor Enriquez said I know I saw the numbers and you’re looking at 1100 calls that go out and I know at one time it was like 900 calls that PD was doing on mental and behavioral. So, I know who’s absorbing those now and it’s been great for the reduction of the calls that LCPD has to go on. But one of the big components I always felt was when it becomes a crisis a lot of times what PD is responding to is a SWAT call and so is there any correlation or have you seen any data or breakdown numbers that there’s a reduction in SWAT calls? Chief Jason Smith said no we haven’t looked at that number. Mayor Enriquez said ok just see if that is in something the data with the mental and behavioral that leads to those type of calls and DC Urenda could probably get his staff and see if there’s any correlation with how the LIGHT Program. I think it’s a true success. I think what you all are doing is great and I think there is just more of an impact that we’re probably not seeing and what it’s done. 1.2 A DISCUSSION OF REVENUE OPTIONS TO CREATE A SUSTAINABLE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS FUND. Chris Faivre, Deputy Director Economic Development gave an overhead presentation. Councilor Graham said so what I’m taking away is that when you asked people if they want their taxes raised, they’re like “no”. But when you tell them what this actually entails support goes up pretty substantially? Chris Faivre said yeah as we got into our messaging specifically what our intentions Page 7 of 11 were support for those various areas did increase. But it is important to note that at the onset of the survey the baseline question would you support a general GRT increase for these areas was at 51 percent. Councilor Graham asked could we pop back one slide please? So, does this timeline imply that in July we would be bringing to Council the Ordinance where we would raise the GRT to the limits we can by Resolution or Ordinance or what is that Resolution if not? Chris Faivre said what I think you would need to do at that point is to bring a Resolution forward for the full increase I believe, and I guess there is a few options. That you could go out for the ballot support, and you can follow that up with the Ordinance if it did pass on the ballot since it is sort of a two-part option there between the ballot measure and the Ordinance. But that Resolution specifically would be asking Council if they want to move forward with the ballot measure for the increase. Councilor Bencomo asked can you go back one more? This struck me and I just want to just make something really clear for all of us as we move forward with this conversation. That in this survey this sort of focus group of folks, people are saying that the biggest issue right now is homelessness and people are also mostly in support of raising taxes that would go towards police and fire. I just want us to be really clear that police and fire will not fix our homelessness problem alone. So, it’s just when we talk about raising taxes and what we invest them in that we’re investing them in places that are actually going to solve our most challenging problems and so I’m just saying police and fire are not the only things that get to fix homelessness. So, it’s really interesting the perception that’s out in the community. I just wanted to point that out. Just so that I am clear through Ordinance for GRT it would raise to $9 million and then by ballot measure 11. I’m curious if you’re Finance Team is here if there’s been any sort of equation or math where we say how about we do a little bit of both. How to do a little smash up of increase where we’re talking about both GRT and Property Taxes, also do you know where around the State we land on Property Taxes on that value? Chris Faivre said I don’t specifically know where we rank with property taxes. But to your first point there is an option per Ordinance on both Property Tax increase and GRT increase. Councilor Bencomo said the only concern I have with going to the public for $11 million is that would be our cap, that would max us out and we would not be able to raise GRT ever again? Correct, is that my understanding? Chris Faivre said that would put us at the max on our current taxing authority as a municipality correct. Councilor Bencomo said so I guess I would like to know better the implications of that whether positive or negative. I just think that’s an important consideration and as we move forward and if we’re talking about sort of needing a certain threshold that’s why I proposed those, perhaps doing a little bit of tag team between GRT and Property Taxes. Page 8 of 11 Chris Faivre said so via Ordinance Council could increase property taxes using their unused portion of their taxing authority which would generate roughly $6 - $7 million annually. The example here is on a home valued at $300,000, has an assessed value of $100,000, you would be looking at roughly a $100 a year increase on the property taxes. I think that works out to about $8.00 a month on that increase and then additionally via Ordinance for GRT that’s another $9 million that Council could implement. Councilor Bencomo said I would love us to look at that option and I think listening that this is for the public I know that this is a scary conversation, and the reality is that we’re behind on offering quality services to our community when it comes to parks, when it comes to libraries, when it comes to these very quality of life services. We just don’t have enough money for and GO Bonds just aren’t meeting that need necessarily every four years. I think it’s an important conversation, I know it’s hard, I would love to see for me I think it’s important to think about the multiple options that we have in front of us and not totally exhaust the one option immediately. That’s sort of where I’m standing. Councilor Flores said so property taxes are you talking about homeowners or are you talking about property owned by businesses or how does that work? Chris Faivre said this is specific to homeowners. There is a property tax assessed for commercial, but this was specifically for homeowners residential. Councilor Flores said I think if it’s only for homeowners there is going to be some push back because the GRT is on what goods and services that people buy. So, it would be good to make that distinction and then if the City Council was to pass an Ordinance for $9 million, you know what I’m inclined to say is let’s see if we can do a ballot measure and then everybody votes on it. Then if it’s not voted on by the voters then we can go to an Ordinance. But I think that people will want to vote on that and not leave in entirely to City Council. That’s my two cents. Mayor Enriquez said I have no problem with exploring other options. I think this is something definitely that we need to move in this direction as Mayor Pro Tem said we do have where we’re falling behind on things and I can speak personally to Public Safety whether it’s fleet, whether it’s uniforms, whether it’s stations. There’s no plan on how we’re going to get those filled. We had to put Fire Station 3 on the GO Bonds, Station 9 on the GO Bonds. But before that there was never and how do we sustain our fleet even for police and how do we move forward. I think this is the best steps we can do, to have a restricted fund that’s for Public Safety and Quality of Life and road improvements, those things that come up that we’re not taking away from the General Fund and that way you know we’re not as tight in trying to see in priority what we’re going to do. We already have it prioritized so I would be looking for a consensus for the rest of the Council here on do we move forward? Councilor Mattiace said well Mayor I agree with you I think there’s a lot of things that need to be repaired, fixed and made better in the City of Las Cruces. I am glad that Page 9 of 11 the people will decide there is going to be a referendum right or a Bond issue that they will be voting on, if we do the Gross Receipts Tax? Chris Faivre said yes that would be the option, that would go out to the public. Councilor Mattiace said that would be the $11 million. Chris Faivre said yes, I think you could pose the question to support both the $11 million and then Council would enact the other portion of it via Ordinance so correct. Councilor Mattiace asked is there any other increases that we’re proposing like electric bills, or any utility bills increases coming forward? I would prefer not to have it on property tax. You know we’re real concerned about the unhoused and affordable housing, and I think we could leave the property tax where it is, and I prefer the Gross Receipts Tax increase. Chris Faivre said at this time I am not aware of any specific other increases to utilities or otherwise. I don’t know if there’s anyone from utilities here to comment on that. But I could certainly get back to Council on that. Councilor Mattiace said again a lot of people are struggling with the inflation and the cost of the things going up. But I think if they’re going to be allowed to vote on it then I would support that. Sonya Delgado, Assistant City Manager said utilities is currently starting their rate structure so they will be going through that process, and they should have that done I would believe in the next fiscal year 25. Councilor Bencomo said just as the Vice Chair of the Utilities. I do want to say that Utilities is struggling with the same thing, the really outdated infrastructure and figuring out ways to keep up with a growing City that has a lot of needs around water, wastewater and those are yes sinkholes. Those are really big issues and of course the Electric Utility does not belong to the City. Councilor Mattiace said I realize it’s an Enterprise fund and that utility fund if I can remember going through the budget. There was quite a debt for I believe the retirement PERA in the Enterprise Funds. Do we have a large amount that is due this year for the PERA reimbursement, Ikani? Leeann DeMouche, Finance Director said to answer your question Councilor Mattiace no. Councilor Mattiace asked that’s a good answer, but when will that be? Leeann DeMouche said it is as in all things we have a list of people that are eligible to retire that doesn’t mean that they will retire. I mean at one time this is a new ruling for Gadsby’s, but it is not that kind of obligation. It does sometimes when we’re trying to Page 10 of 11 take on debt and things that is a considerment, but it is noncash item, so it is not necessarily something that is going to be affecting our budget. It’s on the balance sheet. Councilor Mattiace asked not on the General Fund? Leeann DeMouche said the General Fund has it as well, but again it’s a noncash item. So, it’s on our Balance Sheet sir. Councilor Mattiace asked we just carry it? Leeann DeMouche said we do sir. Mayor Enriquez said thank you Chris, based on the visual I got from the consensus, is to go ahead and move forward. 2. ADJOURNMENT 2.1 Councilor Johana Bencomo moved, seconded by Councilor Becky Corran, to Adjourn at 4:01 p.m. RESULT: Carried MOVER: Councilor Johana Bencomo SECONDER: Councilor Becky Corran AYES: Councilor Johana Bencomo, Councilor Yvonne Flores, Councilor Becki Graham, Councilor Becky Corran, Mayor Eric Enriquez, Councilor Cassie McClure, and Councilor William Mattiace Mayor City Clerk Page 11 of 11