ready to begin on the uh stream.
Okay.
All righty. Good morning, everybody.
It's uh 9:01 a.m. here on uh Tuesday,
August 4th, 2026, and we'll be calling
this uh work session to order. Our first
order of business is the pledge of
allegiance. If you can, if you are able
to, please stand and uh join us in the
pledge.
I pledge algiance to the flag
of
the standy
for all.
Thank you. All right. And with that,
we'll first order of business is the
affordable housing plan draft. With
that, I'll turn it over to Miss Daniela
Andrade.
Good morning.
Good morning, Mr. Chair. Good morning,
Commissioner
Daniel Andrade, Housing Department.
Today we'll go over the affordable
housing plan update.
Um
I wanted to inform that community
stakeholders and participant of housing
in the county had been inviting to this
work session so they can submit their
feedback at the end of it. They've been
attending in person and watching the
stream live as well.
As a background, the county current
affordable housing plan was approved in
2015. In July 2025, Community
Development combined efforts with the
city of Las Cruises to not duplicate the
data collection and analysis and to work
with their consultant with policy
research on updating our plan. The
affordable housing plan is a state
requirement for all local governments
who will be working and investing on
affordable housing. Housing New Mexico,
previously known as MFA, must review and
approve our affordable housing plan and
the affordable housing ordinance to
ensure compliance with the New Mexico
affordable housing act. They allow
partnership among municipalities and
counties as long as the data is
sufficiently disagregated to address
each entity's unique needs. This present
draft has been submitting submitted to
housing New Mexico for a preliminary
review. This is a best practice to align
the plan with the requirements from the
state and we will include their feedback
in the draft.
Let's begin. The affordable housing plan
comprise four mandatory sections. We
will go over the updated county data
within the two first sections, community
and housing profile and the housing
needs assessment. This section contain
information from the 2024 US population
census, the 2025 Donana County survey
and the stakeholder interviews the
consultant conducted countywide.
The information is analyzed as the
county as a whole specifically for city
of Las Cruus and the balance of the
county which includes municipalities
other than Las Cruuses, Colonials and
uninccorporated areas. You'll see this
differentiation throughout the
presentation and the plan.
The complete report
the complete report on survey results
and analysis and the stakeholder
interview summary are in appendix A, A2
and B in the draft. Section three is the
land use and policy review which is a
comprehensive analysis of the current
legal framework that the county has for
developments and affordable housing.
Section 4 is where we have set up goals,
policies, and quantifiable objectives
that the county can follow in the next
years before a new updated assessment is
needed.
As we add the board's feedback to the
plan and receive the stakeholders input
after this presentation, the next step
will be to update accordingly the
affordable housing ordinance to initiate
the official submission to Housing New
Mexico for approval.
Okay, let's start with Donana Countyy's
community profile and the needs
assessment. I will share the key
findings as briefly as possible.
As mentioned before, this data is a
result of the analysis of the 2024 US
population census and the 2025 Donana
County housing and community needs
survey plus the stakeholder interviews
the consultant conducted.
Appendix 8 of the draft shows the
complete results of the survey. Appendix
A2 is a supplemental survey analysis
specific for the communities in Donana
County outside of Las Cruises. While the
survey as a whole had 742 responded, 88%
of the respondents were residents, 11%
were stakeholders who live in Donana
County and the reminder were
stakeholders who serve residents of the
county but commuting from somewhere
else. 70% of the respondents were Las
Cruus's residents.
The supplemental analysis represent the
responses of 210 residents of the
balance of the county. Although this is
not a statistically significant number,
the responses provide a situational
understanding of their demographics and
specific needs.
Let's review the major points. The
demographics are shifting. While the
population in New Mexico is growing at a
slow 3%, Donaana has grown 9.6 between
2010 in 2024.
The urban areas are driving the growth.
Las Cruises represents now the 51% of
total county population, up from 47 in
2010. Sunland Park increased around
4,000 residents and now it makes up 8%
of the county's population.
Age is a very significant driver in
demand for housing. The population in
Donana County is generally aging. We can
see in the graphic that the population
under 18
has decreased while the population over
65 has increased at a higher rate. Using
this demographic to address a couple of
housing data we'll see later, the
average household size dropped from 2.73
to 2.58
in the county and even more so in the
city. This aligned with the increase on
single uh person households versus the
decrease of married couple households.
While Sunland Park and Hatch are the
youngest in the county, Mesia remains
the oldest county with a large
population over 65 and over.
Having an aging population drives
critical physical and supportive housing
needs across the county. 15% of the
county's population reports a disability
with the majority of these being among
aging adults. 40% of the people over 75
years and old um year old reported
disability in the balance of the county
with 38% located in Hatch and 56%
located in Sunland Park. The more
dominant impairments countywide in the
population over 75 years are mobility
limitations with a 29%
independent living support and hearing
impairments have 23% each
income.
Homeowner income are nearly double those
of rental households across all
jurisdictions in the county. Median
household income increased by 74% from
35,230
in 2010 to 61,154
in 2024.
Currently, the median income 2026 for
Donana County is 79,900.
Meanwhile, median homeowner um household
income increased by 53% from 50,223
to the 76,942.
A median renter household income
increased by 102% from $20,80
to 40,554.
Even with this increase, render face
acute purchasing constraints as median
home prices rose 51% post 2022.
Another key finding and heavy driver on
demand is the commuting and special
dynamics.
We can see in the graphic on the right
that we have 19,743
incomuters.
It means people coming from outside
Donana County that are workforce here.
They are hired in um Donana County.
However, 25,162
residents of Donana County out commute
outside of the county to be able to
work.
This is a major um difference
and affected by the industrial corridor
disconnect between Anthony and Santaa.
89% of jobs are held by incomuters while
87 of local residents work elsewhere in
these areas.
The major border industrial grow lack
local workforce housing driving severe
crossjurisdictional commuting borders
poverty rates.
This is using the calculation of poverty
as defined by the US Census Bureau.
Donana County overall household poverty
remains mostly flat with a 23 to 22% of
poverty around the county. Las Cruz saw
a poverty increase of 4% rising for 19
and 20 2010. Anthony continues to
experience the highest poverty rate with
a 37%
Poverty in the region heavily
concentrates in single parent households
and persons with disabilities,
highlighting where target housing
subsidies and deep affordability
interventions are most critical.
Those were the key de demographic
drivers for housing. The plan includes
additional information and more detailed
historical comparison among the county
las cruises and the balance of the
county data.
Let's move to the household
characteristics.
While in Las Cruises the single person
and senior household is the largest
component in the county. The dominant
household type was married couple at
41%.
You can see the decrease in both the
city and the county as a whole of 8%
points while the single person non
senior household increase 5% overall.
This is the largest drop in married
couple households since 2010. In single
part with children household, female
head of household accounts for 9% in the
county while male head of household is
4%.
and Anthony we can see the drop of
married with children drops at 17%
points Solen Park 13% points in Mesa 9%
points aging single population elderly
65 plus a single person households rose
in all areas except Sunland Park
the housing market analysis
single family and manuacture factor
housing from the back form the backbone
of the countywide stock while multif
family options remain concentrated in
municipal centers. As we can see here,
the household supply trend has been
increasingly
adding single family homes, reducing the
percentage of multif family options for
middle the middle um the middle mi, I'm
sorry, the m middle the missing middle.
It's the people that cannot afford a
single family home but is ready to move
out of rent.
So they don't have enough money to buy a
marketplace uh unit because the prices
of single family home are higher of what
they have in savings and they can they
what they can afford in their with their
income. Affordable housing should be up
to 30% of their income dedicated to
housing. If it's higher than 30% is
considered not affordable.
Multifamilies assist in this group of
the missing middle. It provides
duplexes, triples, forplexes, apartments
that become a more affordable option for
families with kids that or maybe reliing
only one income. We can see the trend
how the developers have target an
additional number of single family
homes. and is the more rentable or
profitable option. The county should
address this gap.
Surgeon in rents and home values. We can
see that from 2010 to 2024
the median rent increase went up 61%.
We also face a depleted inventory and
soy prices.
The median gross rent went from 641 to
$1,031
in Donana County and it jumped up to
$1,121
in Las Cruises. That is a 61% increase
and 64 in in the city.
We have critically low vacancies,
extremely tight supply. It's from 3.3%
vacancies for rentals with a cost below
$750
a month and 4.4 for rentals between $750
and $9.99.
A healthy market should have at least a
5% of vacancies to provide diversity and
choices to home buyers and renters.
We can also see that typical home prices
surged 50% overall between 2010 and 2025
from 190,000 to 283,000.
Most of this increase happened post
2020.
the existing needs.
As we know, household who experience
cost burden may be B are might be more
vulnerable to displacement displacement
following job loss or rent increases.
We can see several disparities exist
between owner stability and renter
vulnerability.
The renters are burdened. 54% of renters
in the county and 57 in Las Cruzes spend
more than 30% of their gross income in
housing. The owners
burn
stable at 21% of B jurisdictions and
this makes renter household highly
fragile to economic disruptions
for overcrowding renters are over
represented in the county. 6.1% of
renters live in overcrowded conditions
and 3.2 of the owners.
During the survey and the stakeholder
interviews, we received feedback
regarding what are the key resident
requests.
They selected rental assistance as the
top priority to ensure stability while
seniors cited repair assistant funding
to maintain older single family
properties.
Here we can see some of the major
findings in the balance of the county
and top repairs needed by tenure. The
homeowners talk about cosmetic
improvement, remodeling, broken crack
windows, interior walls and ceilings.
However, the renters
have cooling system and interior walls
and ceilings.
The mobile home occupants on the other
half half of them as for interior walls
and ceiling as the major need within a
mobile home.
cooling systems as well and remodeling.
All this was across the balance of the
county from unincorporated areas.
Within the needs assessment, we analyzed
the workforce affordability crisis. As
you can see here, four major industries
were identified. The leisure and
hospital on hospitality represents the
fastest growing workforce in the county
with 17%. However, the people that works
for these industry are priced out in
rental home ownership at one earner and
home ownership with two earners.
Natural resources and mining suffer the
same. they have a low wage that doesn't
allow them to be able to afford um at
least
a rental or home ownership.
While in trade and utility service uh
services, which is a major employer,
the media of their salaries allows
rental affordability but not home
ownership.
As we can see, public administration and
professional careers, which is the
slowest growth in the county, might be
able to afford rentals. And if they have
more than one earner, they will be able
to afford home ownership, but not if is
an individual living alone.
As we can see, we need a lot of um help
on this type of uh programs.
unfulfilled rental and ownership gap.
The renter gap countywide reduced from
6,000 in 2020 to 400 uh I'm sorry 4,600
in 2024 in the balance of the county
decrease the need from 1,400
to 103 units as a gap. This is not just
because units have been added to the
stock. It's because the county has seen
a shift in the income. While we used to
have um a higher number of people
earning 30% of the area medium income
and below, these people shift to the
next or other levels of income. That's
why the need was reduced.
Finally, we'll see in the needs
assessment a 10-year projection
affordability needs. The balance of the
county may need 4,560
units estimated for the next 20 years.
The total of the county including Las
Cruises is 10,174
units estimated. As we can see, the vast
majority goes to the needs in Los
Cruuses. However, the balance of the
county, as you can see, is a split by
rental units and home ownership.
We will need at least 100 uh 1,140 units
which represent the 25% of the need and
rental units at affordable level which
is for as you can see divided by um the
different area medium income.
The maximum number of units is required
for home ownership
and it is at this point from the 100%
area medium income and above. These
include moderate income which is 120%
workforce which is the 140% which
represents all our public service,
police, fire fighters, nurses, teachers.
1,847
units will be needed to serve this
population and above in the next 20
years.
As you can see, the need is great and
extremely low and very low. However,
ownership for this will need heavily
subsidized assistance and different
initiatives other than just regular
development for profit.
Let's move to the land use and policy
review. This item was um is analyzed in
section three was thoroughly reviewed by
community development and the housing
department.
The primary findings are
we found a zoning mismatch. Higher
density housing types are permitted by
right in theory but actual land zoning
for them is extremely restricted. The
majority of uninorporated land is zone
T2 which is rural prohibiting higher
density housing by right.
As we know we are suffering for
infrastructure deficit and the balance
of the county due to inadequate water
system and flooding risks. This limits
the production of housing.
The strong capacity exists for mobile
homes for example but higher density
multif family rentals, housing faces
several infrastructure and zoning
constraints.
This is the land use analysis and
zoning. As we can see the rural has a
dominance
and here all the um permits medium and
high density
housing but is severally limited.
According to the UDC, the minimum lot
size of 3,000 to 6,000 square feet and
building height of three stories are
reasonable and do not oppose major
barriers.
They identify a regulatory reform needed
updating the code standards for
accessory dwelling units, adus, group
homes, affordable housing subdivision.
That way we can remove these barriers.
This is a summary of how the zoning um
goes based on the on every district. The
rural son as you see any kind of multif
family as duplexes, triples or
apartments are prohibited. Same for
medium density which allows only
duplexes.
We need to um highlight that in the
balance of the county the limit the
maximum barrier the biggest barrier that
we have is the lack of infrastructure to
serve this type of housing.
A comparison between density and
financial visibility. So when we're
talking about low density, we're talking
about single family homes. Two to four
dwelling units per acre.
These represent a high subsidy gap to be
able to serve to our buyers.
Medium density is six units um per per
acre. This might be feasible for income
120 of the area medium income and above.
feasible but is still requiring subsidy.
If we're talking about multif family
developments, which is 12 dwelling units
per acre, we finally reach affordability
at 120% of the area medium income.
I'm going to share with the
commissioners the area medium income so
you can compare what is um this in
monetary income.
as we can see in the chart up to 80% of
the area medium income is what the
federal assistant usually aims to their
programs for affordable housing.
But we're talking about the
affordability is reach of the 120 AMI
which represent a single person earning
at least 60,000.
But they still will have to look for a
multif family unit uh duplexes or
apartment. They are not allowed to have
a single family home disregarding the
family or household size
and high density which is a 24 dwelling
units per acre. If we add donated land
to that to remove from the equation of
the cost, we finally reach affordability
at 100% of the area medium income with a
113 monthly payment gap for mortgage due
to income. It means they will go over
still over the 30% of their gross income
to achieve affordability.
As we can see, as the lower the density,
the biggest the gap to be able to help
our residents to become homeowners or
find units to um
be able to take care of their families.
As we know in Donana we have several
environmental and infrastructure
constraints in the plan. Three major
were identified. Flooding hazards.
This heightened risk from severe weather
represents it's the single most
significant physical environmental
challenge that we face as we have um
unincorporate areas located in flooding
zones.
the water infrastructure,
lack of adequate water systems and
wastewater capacity which constrains the
development of unincorporated areas and
restrict missing middle housing
buildouts.
And it is it was recommended to
regionalizing utilities and expanding
development reviews, expedited
development reviews in areas where water
service providers
uh have existing capacity which is
essential for growth
multif family rental capacity.
The multif family de developments rely
heavily on central water and sewer
connection which are severely lacking in
these areas that we discussed.
This is obviously constrained by the
zoning bottlenecks because we cannot
serve higher density developments
but also because of financial viability.
visibility requires 12 to 24 dwelling
unit um a per acre
in in order to serve lower income tires.
So all these gap subsidies will have to
be addressed with different financial
mechanisms
special needs and for housing. The UDC,
the unified development code, lacks
explicit land use definitions and
sitting criteria to support group homes,
congregate care, and emergency shelters.
The county needs to streamline
administrative process for ADA for
housing accommodations
and
we found vulnerable groups as elderly
residents, the agricultural workers,
disabled individuals and shelter
households. They face acute shortages of
accessible housing and services.
There are several ways that we can
strategize to promote a better
affordable housing environment and to
um
promote better policies.
Identify village redevelopment sites and
deline del delineate infill incentive
areas in the UDC with modified standards
and expedited reviews. This is something
that internally Donana County can do.
We will seek federal and state grants,
for example, to fund demolition of
direct unhabitable structures to yield
clean info sites.
And we can leverage scatter site
community land trust or and leave
workspaces for affordable um home
ownership.
The county has done
um a couple of updates on their policies
during this time since the last
affordable housing plan. The affordable
housing subdivision design standard um
was adopted to improve density and
reduce cost. And the mixuse zone also
permits a smallcale commercial mix with
sidebill residential to encourage um com
compatibility.
We just need to work on top of those to
make it um friendlier for affordable
housing.
As I mentioned, all these reviews and
comments has been um analyzed by
community development and they find that
these updates, changes or analysis will
be possible
for the goals and policies which is the
section 4. Um there's are several items
that we'll go over like funding
resources and barriers identified to
come down to the goals that we found
that we could promote in the next years.
So the federal grants from the
department of housing and urban
development for infrastructure and
housing program is something that we can
tap into. Unfortunately, we're not a
direct entitlement. So, we will have to
compete with the rest of the state um
through a grant a competitive grant
process. However, we can access these
funds in a regular basis at least
annually and apply with different
programs for it.
We also have the home funds for rental
and construction projects and the
potential of lowincome housing tax
credit for developers.
The state funding um several ways of tap
into those funds leverage New Mexico
Premier Fund, New Mexico housing trust
fund um linkages of supportive housing
programs and New Mexico state housing
tax credits.
In addition, the state legislature
authorized se uh special appropriation
from general fund and capital outlays in
2025 and 2027 to support affordable
housing project. That's something that
we still can apply for.
We found institutional and operational
constraints. Of course, the county had a
fragmented land use infrastructure,
transportation, and colonial policies.
However, the county created a housing
department and that will help um
integrating the housing capacity and
analysize all these plans as a whole
with the housing in in the center
the UDC and multi-level reviews.
According to the stakeholder interviews
and the analysis of the land um use and
policy, we have an overly broad and
outdated UDC code which can cause
variance requests that might create
conflicts between neighborhoods.
We also have to go through multi- agency
reviews for example with BLM and the
state land and these stalled projects.
It is recommended to dedicate
coordination leaison to these um reviews
to expedite and and keep up with the
projects.
One is constraint that was identified in
Donana is land tenure and clear titles.
In many areas, homes are inherit without
probate filings, living an unclear title
across multiple generations, which make
it difficult to develop sub uh subdivide
or access traditional finances. As if
they don't have the proper
documentation, they won't be able to
apply for federal subsidies.
One of the biggest highlight of the plan
was the systematic prioritation needed.
An estimated estimated 25 to 35 to 30
colonials still lack basic services
including pave roads, drainage and
wastewater collection. Project project
has project progress has historically
relied on constituent advocacy rather
than stricter need creating severe
disparities where some communities are
fully modernized with while adjacent
ones remain unserved.
Legal complications such as home build
and obsolete town plats further restrict
public investment.
As we know, we have several threshold
barriers when we face um disasters.
However, the county has been working
efficiently and diligently toward bridge
these allocations and issues. Um,
all the actions that the board and the
office of emergency management took
during the 2025 flood event show that we
are prepared to serve our community and
secure any funding that might be needed
in the um in the future of course of
from the federal government.
That bring us to how we define our
strategic priorities.
For goal number one, where I will
address affordable housing, pursue
resources to facilitate the development
of new affordable ownership and rental
housing communities.
We'll commit to develop at at least 400
affordable units, which is below 80% of
the area medium income and attainable
housing
between 80% and 100% of the area medium
income. In the next five years,
we will utilize a community land trust
to preserve this as a permanent subsidy
um subdivision
and these 400 units will be on top of
the units that are developed by the
private sector without public assistance
um subsidies.
This might help reduce at least 10% of
the housing needs that we will see in
the next 20 years.
A community land trust is the right tool
for this goal because it's permanently
because it [clears throat] permanently
retains the public subsidy invested in
each home through the structure of a
ground lease. ensuring that every dollar
the county commits today creates
affordability not just for the first
buyer but for every subsequent resident
for generations.
The community land trust model benefits
the community by developing and
stewarding home ownership opportunities
as an alternative to rent aligning
mission and being a trusted partner of
county housing. Creating a housing
program continuum that seeks to
stabilize house lease or rent. create
home owners and be an economic engine to
the neighborhood.
Goal one includes several operational
objectives
that are already in motion such as
identify target locations for new
affordable and attainable development in
the next 5 to 10 years that align with
plan infrastructure extensions.
For this end, community development will
provide a GIS map that identify these
parcels and allow us to track these over
time.
Having dedicated county funding to
support the community land trust as a
permanent affordability investment to
create affordable and attainable
development and match with competitive
estate funding as the board did in
November 2025 with the inclusion of the
community land trust in our ICIP.
New objectives are, for example,
exploring new financial tools, create
housing that benefits the community as a
whole with public and private
partnerships, and work with private
developers to include affordable units
within the new developments to create a
continue addition to our housing stock.
For goal number two,
support strategic growth through
aligning affordable attainable housing
goals and development and investment
opportunities.
This goal include three operational
objectives. Make modifications to the
land use code to streamline ADU
approvals. Expand missing middle housing
in rural zones. Identify land
acquisitions or conveyance to affordable
and attainable development partners.
Establish an interdep department
interdep departmental coordination team
to align housing infrastructure capital
improvement and economic development
priorities for colonials and
unincorporated areas.
For goal number three, community
outreach, expand housing information,
outreach and resources to developers and
the broader community. This is a high
priority goal and is all about informing
and assisting the community to learn
more about housing programs and the
resources available not only within the
county but connect them with existing
opportunities. As part of the um
stakeholder interviews and the survey,
we identified that most of the resources
are in Las Cruises and our residents
need to commute and sometimes have to
have long waiting periods to access
information and resources. We need to
address that and we can do it um in
several ways. The housing department
website will be a good tool creating
workshops and trainings outside of Las
Cruuses in order to alleviate their
demand but also to serve the people
where they are. Create easy to
understand guides materials of the UDC
to make it easier to digest and
understand. Adopt a process for
reasonable accommodation for units or
public or common use areas for a person
with disabilities when zoning start
standards cannot be met. And finally,
establishing an interdep departmental
coordination team with health and human
services that recognize the critical
link between stable housing and
community health.
The final two goals, supportive housing
and best practice tracks.
As we know, the county has
um a few units of supportive housing. We
want to capitalize on that and develop a
supportive housing community for
unhoused residents in a 20-year target.
The goal is to build two to three
permanent supporting housing
developments, delivering 350 deeply
affordable units in partnership with the
community land trust.
The county has made progress by
launching a pilot program for just
involves justice involved single adults.
The future might include supportive
support supportive communities tailored
for single mothers and other vulnerable
population. The final goal is best
practice tracks as the county housing
infrastructure is built. Add new
programs and best practices that have
been successful in peer counties and
cities. This will have uh two-prong
approach. property stabilization,
preserve existing housing stock, protect
rural residents and mitigate
displacement. And the second area of
this is education and advocacy.
Conduct saving workshop, homeowner,
financial literacy and community
campaigns to build sustained public
support for affordable housing.
Thank you. I stand for questions.
Thank you, Miss Andre.
Thank you. Good morning, Mr. Chair. Good
morning all. Good morning, Daniela. Good
morning.
And I apologize for coming in and out.
There was some phone calls I had to
take. Um, but as I'm looking at these
goals, and I think they're very
attainable, number one, but when can we
start? Do we have a timeline? And as I
was listening and also going over these
yesterday,
um if we can address the timeline first.
So I'm particularly looking at uh goal
number three, community outreach and
you're saying that is one of the highest
priorities. So do we have a plan on when
we can commence that? Mr. Chair, Madame,
yes, we do. I'll provide an additional
updates after this presentation
regarding certain of the tasks that are
already being completed and are in
progress. But regarding your question,
the education and um community outreach
component will be the first one we will
need to hit. We already have a program
portfolio. There are at least 30
programs that will be developing as the
housing department grows and we have a
staff ready to do that to address not
only um the programs for assistance and
direct assistance to our uh community
but also to educate them on what their
rights are, what their needs are and
what they can do for the future to
become better renters and someday
homeowners. So we do have um education
as something that is going to happen in
this fiscal year. Um and then after that
we will promote constant education plan
for homeowners and tenants as well.
So when we're talking about the fiscal
year are we talking about a month, 60
days, 90 days, 120 days? What's my
question?
Of course ma'am.
Currently I have the list of all the
trainings that we will need to do. We
will h as you know housing department is
a one person currently we're hiring. As
soon as I have a team and I'm hiring at
least two people to the team, they will
be tasked to not only create the RFP for
this and find the better way if we have
internal resources, if we have state
resources, but we aim for at least in
the next six six months to create the
content of the programs, the trainings
hire someone either a consultant firm or
partner with Housing New Mexico to
provide this assistance. Uh we can also
reach out to um the department of
housing and urban development to provide
assistance
and be able to start within the fiscal
year which will be next 2028 January to
June to be able to um deploy pilot
training programs in our unincorporated
areas.
Thank you. So my next question is you
mentioned problems with people securing
title to property or to to um obtain
generational wealth or a generational
family home. Have you spoken to the
probate judge to perhaps having clinics
throughout the county so that um advice
can be given and also sponsoring free
legal clinics to address address this
because I know there's attorneys in town
that are already uh providing these
services at free legal clinics. So, is
there a thought to join with them uh to
have an attorney there and and maybe
streamline the process because some
people really don't know where to go and
if we have those attorneys that can
maybe go to Hatch or Sunland Park or
Vado or wherever uh these clinics can be
established that might
be helpful. I think I know a lot of
people don't know where to go and that
might be one of the steps.
Mr. Chair, madame. Yes. Um, our housing
strategic task force as you know um has
been working in the last two months and
they supported and promoted the idea of
not only providing these type of
assistance but also partnered with all
legal clinics and even maybe reach out
to private firms to see if their proono
time is interested and collaborate with
us.
All this has been thrown through the um
operational housing plan that I'm going
to be talking after this. And as we
define how these type of programs will
work with the legal department and what
is the reach that the county can have,
we also want to be able to promote any
kind of service available to the
residents on our website so we can
connect them. Another part of the plan
is to actually line or define a process
because a lot of the time is not knowing
where to go and not knowing where to
ask. So the the the workload be will be
internal first to figure it out a good
process with all the different
variations that some of the residents
might have and when legal and of course
the board approved this we will be able
to partner with not only the private
judge but hopefully
private partners as well to serve the
community. But thank you. Yes.
Thank you.
I have a couple of questions Mr. Chair.
So, I've had calls from our citizens
lately and regarding county ordinances.
Los Cruus has allowed locas to be placed
along primary residents and I know that
you have to talk to uh community um
development. Um, but I've heard
complaints where you have maybe an acre
or two and there and the ordinances are
so strict that they're not allowing
little casitas or maybe a duplex to be
placed on that. Who's responsible for
that? Is that you, Miss Aworth, uh, to
push forward on that or um, I just
thought this might be a good a good
opportunity for me to get that response.
And I I think while Miss Insworth's
coming up too, uh, Commissioner, I think
one of the other things that has to be
considered is the fact that while this
in the city of Lasus, they have sewer
and and utilities. And one of the
challenges we have is that there's a
significant amount of areas across the
county where we don't have that. People
are on septic. So then you have
guidelines by NMEED that set that. So, I
think like even now to have a I could be
wrong, but I think to have like a
threebedroom a septic a plain septic
system on a for a three-bedroom house on
has to be something like.7 acre 3/4 of
an acre lot which you know nowadays to
buy land to do that it's almost
restrictive. It prices people out to
live in the county unless it's a very
small home. Um otherwise then they
require you to have advanced septic
systems which cost a exor you know
exorbitant amount of money to be able to
do that. And I think that's one of the
things that we're seeing is that as we
see development I I I know in my
district you're you're seeing them build
on oneacre homes and they're selling
them as you know you get space but the
reason they have to do that is because
of the the the uh land needs for leech
fields things like that for the septic
system and I think that's something we
have to address is as we talk on uh our
infrastructure needs how do we how do we
navigate that and I don't know Miss
Ainsworth I don't know if you can
address but I think that's part of what
the challenges that we have with
approving some of these.
Mr. Chair, Commissioner Chaparo, that
that is only part of it. Um, our
ordinance is restrictive and we have
made efforts over the last couple of
years to build in some flexibility. Um,
one of the issues that we had is that
the size of the accessory dwelling is
limited in most zoning districts and we
were able to raise that cap in some of
them. We're planning to come back with
another round of amendments to the UDC
that would allow in all districts a
larger accessory dwelling unit. And why
that cap is there, I'm not sure. It was
approved that way back in 2016.
Um
I I believe that we should not be
limiting the size of the accessory
dwelling unit and I think we should be
looking at allowing them by right in
more districts. One of the issues we've
encountered is opposition from some of
the members of the community. Um there
are areas where people do not want
accessory dwelling units or they don't
want their neighbors to have accessory
dwelling units. Um but there are many
areas of the county where it would be
appropriate and it would um it would
certainly uh allow for a lot more
affordable housing opportunities if we
did allow it by right. So you can expect
to see that within the next few months.
Um, of course it will be going to the
planning and zoning commission for their
recommendation and then it would be
coming before you with along with some
other amendments that we're planning for
the UDC.
I love that answer, Christina. Um
because I'm thinking of people that have
lived on their property for years and
it's a family home and the property is
large enough so they can build a casita
for their mother-in-law or for the
abuelita and and so I'm thinking of that
as I visit my district and I've have
visited Sun in the Sun Park Santaesa
area and so that just that question came
to mind. Um, and if we can commissioners
move that along quicker because
I know that that the seniors in the
county are having very difficult time
finding homes. Um,
so thank you for that. You just made my
day quite honestly. So if we can move
forward on that quickly, I I would
appreciate it. um for our two assistant
county managers that are here. I think
that should be one of our priorities is
making certain that those ordinances
where those caps are lowered in the
areas that we are allowed to lower the
caps so that hopefully private
developers can move forward on perhaps
addressing this housing issue. Thank
you. Thank you, Christina. I appreciate
it. So, I have another question.
I am aware
that the renters
are often time well sometimes afraid to
go to court to have their rent abated if
they don't have air conditioning or
plumbing problems or whatever problems
they have. Um
is there any we can do to alleviate that
fear? I know some of the landlords are
perhaps not providing
appropriate housing for the rent that
they're charging
and and I don't know the answer to that
because if they report the issue then
the landlord says well you know you
can't live here so you're out until I
fix a problem and the problem isn't
fixed and then they get the next
Mr. Chair, Commissioner Chaparo. Um, as
housing,
the only thing that we can start doing
is educating both landlords and tenants
on the Fair Housing Act and on tenants
rights. And those are considered within
the programs that we were discussing. um
for education.
People need to know what they can ask
for and that they do not have to settle
and landlords need to also understand um
what receiving a uh having a business
and receiving income um put them in the
responsibility of providing a good
service. So as part of the fair housing
act and all the trainings that is not
just for the housing people but also for
our community, we want to educate all
parts involved and then move from there
with partnerships and promote these all
across the county with our other
incorporated areas like Sunland Park,
Messia, Anthony Hatch and the Mesa
Valley Public Housing Authority and
promote all this so our community
understand that they have rights and
they they deserve to live in a dignified
household with all the services that are
paying for. And if I may suggest just
because I'm seeing this very often every
week when I go to court, I'm seeing
these issues with landlord tenant
issues and maybe creating a flyer or
maybe
have talking to the magistrate judges
and allowing the county to have a desk
somewhere so that information can be
relayed to the landlord and tenants. I'm
just throwing ideas out there. I'm
seeing it
every week
and it I've been an interpreter for
years and years and years and there's I
don't think there's a year, pardon me, a
week that has gone by where there's not
been a landlord tenant issue
where the landlord is perhaps not
knowledgeable on the law or not wanting
to follow the law and the tenants are
being ejected for reporting the problem
and and I Again, I don't know the answer
to that. But my suggestion would be is
maybe setting up the magistrate court
once a week if we're allowed to do that
and speaking to both landlord and
tenants on certain days. And I just
don't remember the calendars. There's
what eight judges over there, but
perhaps speaking to them might give us
some more ideas. Thank you. Thank you,
Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Commissioner Kimell.
Mr. Chair, I'd like Daniela. Thank you
for being here. This is really really
interesting and and along with what
Commissioner Chaparo says, who enforces
the Fair Housing Act? Do you have to go
to court to get relief?
Well, do you know, Mr. Chair?
Go ahead.
the the county it's bided by policy and
um resolution to enforce and adopt the
Fair Housing Act
in and I'm going to say when it becomes
a private outside of the county
relationship such as tenant landlord we
might not be able to intervene
but we definitely can assist.
So basically they have to file a lawsuit
if there's a problem.
They will have to follow the proper
channels. Yes.
So when you're talking about somebody in
a very low rent, mobile home, trailer,
and they're being treated poorly,
there's very little they can do
for recourse. Right.
I I'm kind of curious. I I don't know if
if if if as possible. I was kind of
curious how I know with we have Miss
Green here. I I don't know. I was just
curious if how the city is there a way
that the city of Las Cusus
uh handles that uh if you see those
cases and if it's the same
or any guidance. Just kind of curious to
understand how you all handle it.
Good morning, Commissioner Natalie Green
for the record. Uh housing administrator
for the city of Los Cusus. So, we have
um several things. One, if it's a
landlord tenant issue, we do have a
hotline so residents can reach out and
we do take county calls. So
575-528-3022.
As part of our landlord tenant efforts,
we purchased um well over a thousand
landlord tenant handbooks in both
English and Spanish. So we have copies
of those and happy to connect uh Daniela
to New Mexico Legal Aid who publishes
those. Um and we pass those out both at
city hall and then we also email the
link um when residents reach out to us.
In terms of fair housing, uh the city
does have a comprehensive fair housing
ordinance. Um and we can take cases
through municipal court if it's in city
limits. However, uh historically we have
a referral process and we send that to
the US Department of Housing and Urban
Development and their fair housing team
and they have a hotline, a website and
an app where residents can um submit
complaints. I will say that under this
current administration, we are seeing
less enforcement of fair housing issues.
Um, but we can and we'll continue to
work um with Danella on all of these as
we we have some of this infrastructure
in place. So, I do want to congratulate
you guys on taking this bold step
forward. I was listening to the
legislature last week and they had a a
presentation by Pew Research and they
talk about how housing issues and the
housing crisis is really a regional
issue. Um, so us working together
regionally is is what's going to move
the needle. So looking forward to that.
Awesome. Thank you.
That's
Mr. Chair. If I can just uh add Steven
Lopez, one of the acting county
managers. Um,
one of the challenges that we have as a
county is we do have um, and I know this
is a a term some people don't like, but
it's true. We have some slum lords out
there who are absolutely taking
advantage of certain individuals. Um
it's a cash basis rent uh monthtomonth.
There's no contract. There's no lease.
Um and those tenants are very much under
the thumb of those slum lords. Uh some
of these don't have regular electricity.
They're running off extension cords run
from a neighbor's house. Um some don't
have windows or doors. Um a and from the
county side, uh Christina's team is
already working on changing our
environmental codes officer positions to
codes officer positions so they can do
more than just address weeds and trash
and they can actually help us address
things like housing that is
non-compliant. Uh it's going to take us
a little while to get that team trained
up. Uh Christina and the team and I were
just meeting last Wednesday uh
discussing that that transition. Um but
we also need as Daniela pointed out, we
need a place for these people to go and
that's where the the housing stock
really needs to be developed and that's
going to take the county and it's going
to take our private partners.
Thank you, sir.
Okay. Um thank you, Commissioner Kimble.
Hey
Daniel, I know this was a lot of
information as we were going through and
I think what's interesting is um
when you look at percentages,
it's almost
in some ways misleading in a way, right?
because I I I was just taking some notes
where um when we look at the increase in
income
um I think it was early on in the
presentation
we you talked on the the median income
of on slide seven owners versus renters
and what we see is basically a a little
over 50% increase in median income for
owners and then a 100% increase
for renters which you know probably I
think when you look at percentages that
sounds amazing because that's a huge
jump in that time frame but then because
I I just happened to look there was
another one where you said um I think on
the next like one of the next slides
where you talk rent has increased by
61%.
And our average increase in income has
incre like in here it says 74%. But
really the the the reality is we were so
low in terms of income and and so while
it's great to see the that we've incre
that that that we've seen progression in
that it's just like we're we're not
there. Um because I know you had that
that the average rent increase to a
thousand thousand a little over $1,000
which prices out a lot of people. Um, I
I was kind of curious when you look at
this data and you look at these median
incomes,
where did this I guess the values what
what population was this pulled from the
data when you determine the median
income? [cough]
Mr. Chair, the area medium income, it's
pulled from the US census information.
Use that information for this. So it's
the whole Las Cruises metropolitan area
what they call and includes Donana
County.
Okay.
Unfortunately in the income Las Cruises
and Sunland Park create a very heavy
deviation on the income of the rest of
the area. As we can see, Slang Park
increased 171%
on income,
average income, and that totally skews
the rest of the county as we know that
other areas didn't increase that.
And I and I think that was because that
was my next question. I think on slide
nine, um
they you had um
we talked on poverty by jurisdiction,
but was kind of curious. I don't know if
we can see at all, you know, what the
poverty is. Is it by census track or
even the actual communities? Because I
was kind of curious where as we talk and
look at all the different colonials
across the county, was there any one
area in particular that was lower
versus, you know, if I look at Donana,
which is just right outside of the city
of Lasus, is there, you know, maybe
that's a little closer in terms of of
values to or or the data to the city of
Lasus? you know that I was kind of
curious to understand that piece of it
because I think I would love to
understand is there a way for us to
address those areas in particular that
that you know that
have even lower you know what I mean if
if we have significantly lower income uh
and and and significantly higher poverty
in some of our colonials is there a way
for us to to address that because I
think in those areas you know
that's probably one of the bigger needs
to create housing in those areas
without having to create huge logistical
issues for those residents that now have
to you know if they if they live like in
Salem and we say you you know we have a
lot of we have we have uh homes further
south well then maybe their their job is
close to there or their family or
whatever. Like I said it I think when we
when we look at the strategy I want
hopefully we can figure out how
we can we can attack that along with the
where the where we see the the data is.
Um
the
one of the things that I want I just
made a note of because I know you talked
about the the the federal disaster
amounts and how we've tried to address
that piece of it and just for the
public's knowledge that you know you
there was the note that that right now a
lot of what we see in the county is it
doesn't reach the threshold of disaster
limits and the reason it doesn't these
days is because the federal government
increased significantly
that bar from what it used to be. Um,
and so [clears throat] like when we look
at at Vado, um, that was the county
stepping in because we we we weren't
able to address or or meet that debt
that uh that that disaster amount. And
so I think that's what's going to become
important for the county is that we're
going to be having the ones to step in
to help our residents because the
federal government um is not going to be
the one there that's going to help us in
the future unfortunately. And I think as
um Miss Green noted, I think in u you
know under this administration, we're
seeing HUD not you know help with
enforcement either. So, unfortunately,
we're not seeing that. I I at least for
the next couple of years, we're not
going to see that change. Um, which is
really frustrating. Um,
on probate, I think you you you hit a
particular point, Commissioner Chab, on
on probate because I think we just had a
case um where we were immediate uh
remediating a property and the person
had not after the death of the of of the
owner, the next of kin had not addressed
that. And so what happened is it's no
longer could be taken care of by the
probate judge. It has to go to district
court. And I I I a couple of notes I
made and just was I know the county
clerk has her has her podcast um that
they actually did a a a episode on
probate and the importance of it and it
was just interesting because I didn't
you know I think as as I've had per me
personally I've had some uh people in my
family pass it's like you never
sometimes that's the last thing you
think about is having to go and have
properties properties probated and all
the processes. So, I think the as as you
said, Commissioner Chab, finding ways
that we can educate people is going to
be important, but I was just wondering
and maybe you can help answer this for
me, Commissioner Chabaro. When we have
the fees for district court,
where are those said? Is that by the
state or
the acco? Like, where where are those
fees determined? Do you know?
It's by the state, I believe. And um I
know that there are ways to
uh become or apply for indigent services
and even for the fees and I know the
judge the judges can wave a lot of those
fees.
I also know uh the administrative
offices of the courts are very much
involved in the fees.
So maybe working with them so that
lawsuits can be
moved along. Uh most of the land well
yes most of the landlord tenant cases
and Alonzo jump in if I'm incorrect but
most of the landlord uh tenant cases
commence at the magistrate court level
because it's under
okay
uh $10,000. There's some that are
higher, but
yeah. And I and I was because I was
wondering as we get ready to go into
the next legislative session if that was
something, you know, seems to me there
should be some ability or my hope would
be there would be an ability to address
some of those fees so that we could make
it affordable because I could see those
fees becoming a barrier where people are
like, "Oh man, it's going to cost me
this much. I I I don't I'm not going to
go and take care of this now." And so
maybe there's an opportunity there or
and even or incorporated into if there's
ways for people to apply for waiverss
from the court. I think that would be an
amazing thing. But I love the idea
commission that you had of trying to
find ways to bring the magistrate court
or you know out to the communities
because if you could if we could take
care of the services and get that
important piece done that that would you
know be uh a big step. Um, the only
other item I had and I was kind of
curious as we go through the um, as as
Christina noted on
revising the UDC
and I think a little bit I think you had
talked about it. I didn't make a note of
the the slide but um, the potential of
having mixed commercial this here we go
the mixeduse zone.
And you know I think there's there's a
lot of potential for this um in
where we can have commercial and
potentially you know residential above
and and by doing that you by having um
cost split it creates an opportunity
because it becomes affordable to the
developer but also brings more economic
development into that area. And so I
would love to see I I don't know if I
think uh Commissioner Shel Nandez had
once suggested to me in an idea that he
had which was to do something like a TID
in all of our Colonia like in the in the
the sites themselves
to try to spur that type of development
where maybe you know we can do
commercial with mixed use do some
residential with commercial and see how
the private uh you you know, private
businesses can help maybe help us with
creating um inventory in those areas.
And I think one of the things that I I I
love the idea of it because um
as we go through and and and update
similar I think hopefully how the city
of Los Cusus has done um it just happens
that a lot of our communities and those
are already being served by sewer um in
those areas in in um in the community. I
think like Donana, Hatch, um I know
Hatch doesn't technically fall, you
know, I know they're their own
municipality, but like I said, I think
those areas already have sewer which
creates the ability or at least gets
past the the infrastructure limitation
or if there was a need potentially we
could do a PID as well. You know, I
think there's a lot of opportunities for
us to come up with ideas of things we
haven't done before to get creative and
try to start spurring this. So, I'm
excited to see how
what changes come to
um the UDC and and make it more
accessible. I think as Commissioner
Chaparo noted, I think that I love the
idea of how do we get the ability to
have those accessory buildings or
casitas because um not only is it
becoming more and more expensive for
um senior living and and helping address
those in our in you know our our seniors
as they age. But I think there's also
been
more of an emphasis to keep them, you
know, give them some independence, but
keep them in the family so we're not
they're not feeling like they're being
pushed away. And so I I' I'd love to see
where that where that goes. So I'm
excited. Um the only I think the last
thing I have was do we have any updates
on the community land trust initiative?
Yes, sir. And if we are okay with moving
on on the draft, I can provide those
updates that I plan. Um I'm taking notes
of everything you have shared. And let
me say that um the work that um the
consultant did on reviewing the land use
and policy
um and the review of the UDC was very
thorough and community development
supported the initiative. So we are very
excited to see all the changes that were
mentioned and other that you know are
very technical and not here come to
fruition and supporting affordable
housing in a better way. So, thank you
for that. And as we add this comments to
our draft, we will be bringing um any
substantial change that Housing New
Mexico might suggest to you. If it's
something not substantial, we will bring
the resolution to you with an updated
ordinance um to start implementing our
plan.
And and Mr. Mr. Chair, if I may. Um,
yes.
I think you brought up a great point to
identify the areas that are most at risk
regardless of the district it is uh
where housing can be provided and maybe
form some private public partnerships.
I I know at least in my district I have
some very affluent residents, but if you
go further east, I have people living in
mobile homes where they put yanthas on
the roof or they put tires on the roof
so the wind doesn't blow their roof
away. And some of those mobile homes are
very very old. So if we can work towards
identifying the areas that need to be
addressed
quickly, I would appreciate that. I I
think that was a good idea. So thank
you.
Yes, ma'am.
Okay, if we can please open attachment
1.2.
Well, Mr. Chair,
commissioners,
the first update from the housing
department is about the housing
strategic task force. As we mentioned,
it was informed to you that we will
request staff from the county to
volunteer for this task force to create
the five-year operational plan from the
housing department. It is my honor to
present the deliverables and say that we
complete and met our goals ahead of the
schedule timeline. The people that work
in this team came from um a diverse of
departments. We had um public works, the
office of emergency management, the
legal department, facilities, HR,
budget, health and human services, the
clerk office, and the fire department.
So it was a very robust team very with a
very technical approach that also
brought the community input on the
needs.
This plan will provide the road map for
the housing department for the next five
years.
It aligns with the goals that we
discussed in the affordable housing plan
and aligns with everything that the
board has um mentioned today.
We will follow five goals internally. We
will have our own measures and um key
performance indicators will be reported
in periodically to the board and to the
leadership. And finally, the last
deliverable that this task force um
helped us put together, as I mentioned,
was the portfolio programs, the housing
department will be creating
to be able to apply for grants, to be
able to serve the community directly,
and for training and outreach.
All these programs were prioritized
based on different components such as
operationality,
financial feibility, and community
impact.
I wanted to highlight
the work that the task force
provided to the housing department. It
was an addition of the Daisy task. So, I
just want to show my appreciation and I
hope some of them were here. They were
invited. Um, they they just wanted to
work in the background and sometimes
they don't like to be recognized, but um
we did all this in seven weeks and our
goal was eight. So, I was very proud of
them and I'm very excited of seeing this
coming to fruition and being
implemented.
Thank you.
Or
um if they can open please. Attachment
1.3.
Coming to the update of the community
land trust. We have exciting news. Um
our contractor engineering architectural
firm provided the first draft of what
would it look like our community land
trust. While we still work with BLM on
the acquisition of land, we have moved
forward with the preliminary design.
This is a uh combined effort from public
works, the flood commission and the
housing department working to assess all
the risks involving the area. As we
know, we have um some aos crossing
through and we can see how all this will
not only benefit the area of the
community lands but will benefit the
communities nearby and it will plan for
the future on how address all these
needs.
Quickly um the green areas of course
dark green will be active recreational
areas. The light green will be passive
open spaces. Um, of course, this is just
um a very very initial sketch.
We can see the colors of the of the
little squares and bubbles identify as
density.
The lighter color um it's the low
density. Uh residential will be single
family homes.
the color
I'm going to say pink on the far left by
Holorn Road address what you were
commenting on Mr. Chair commercial area
since this commercial area will serve
not only these subdivision but the plan
uh regional park that is across the
street from Holman. So we have mixed use
areas in the red and the high density or
apartments in the color brown in the
north side by a road.
The
little green dotted line across is a
trail system that will connect all the
open spaces with the recreational areas.
and
the county will work on the streets
surrounding the subdivision to handle
the traffic. As we said, it could be at
least a minimum of 400 units with an
estimated up to 800 depending on
density.
As you can see, the whole area is 366
acre 66 acres with 128 of potential
housing lots. That is a lot of
residential area. This is the proposed
design so far. if any feedback after you
heard all the trends that we have in our
affordable housing plan. Um this is
highlighting 23% for mixed use with
commercial at the bottom residential on
the top high density and apartments 17%
um medium density which is duplexes and
triplexes um 23% of the land and low
density single family homes at 38% since
it's the majority of area required for
the build the construction. If you have
any feedback on this, we will welcome as
we will have a couple more renderings um
that we will bring to the board for your
feedback as we nail down the
requirements on um not only the
residential and housing requirements but
infrastructure as well.
Just a question, Mr. Chair, if I may.
Yeah,
Danielle, thank you. This is this also
has made me very happy. That's two
happies in one day. I'm waiting for a
third now,
but I'm I'm happy to report this is in
my district and I think it's going to
work exceptionally well. My question is,
and
I don't know if maybe Mr. Lopez can
answer this question because I know he
drives around in his truck um often in
my district because he lives in my
district.
So, what I'm thinking is there's there's
a little area off of Sonoma Ranch and
Gayahitas where they have little town
houses and little walking paths and
teenytiny little grass areas for
children to pay play. Is that what I'm
envisioning with this?
Is that the kind of development that is
coming to mind?
Mr. Chair and Commissioner Chap. Um,
yesish kind of, but much bigger. So, uh,
if you look up in the apartment complex
area along a royal road there, you'll
notice that there are three and four
acre parks. Um, so those are kind of
what you're thinking of uh in the
Kayahitas area, but you'll also notice
kind of in the center there are three
10acre park areas that actually combined
are larger than Young Park. Um, and they
have been split up a little bit so that
there's better access and there's not
that kind of Young Park. Right now, if
you're in the middle of Young Park, you
there's no natural surveillance um from
the surrounding neighborhoods and the
streets um which does cause some concern
of of people using that especially in
the evenings. So, this has actually been
designed to provide that natural
surveillance and connectivity to the
community. So, um, it it will definitely
have those small little pockets, uh, of
green space and then it'll also have
that opportunity for some really large
areas.
Thank you. Thank you for answering that.
I'm just trying to wrap my head around
what it's going to look like and I
really like the way this is
divided. I I think we can do a little
bit of work on it that might make it
more advantageous for the people that
live there. But great start. Thank you.
Thank you, Commissioner.
Commissioner Kimmel, do you have any
questions?
I I just want to echo
what Commissioner Chabro said because I
think one of the things that uh
I think after the presentation we had of
that preliminary plat a couple of
meetings ago um that we had by the
thirst I think that that's what I think
comes to mind and but I particularly
love the idea that I I didn't realize it
took me a second to see that active
recreation open space area because it
was a different color but it's it does
create that kind of continuity ity right
in the middle. And um
while we I think that's that's going to
be critical because I think as long as
we have these places for the in the
community for them to be able to come
and and and congregate and have some of
those open spaces, I think we've seen
more and more of that in other
communities across the US. Um and and so
I'm excited to see us leveraging that.
And I think even just having having a
draft is what really kind of makes it
exciting because it's like there's
the thought that was there to to be very
intentional about how we're doing this
and that we can leverage into the next
step. So yeah, I'm really excited um
about where this is going. Um I mean and
it's and it's funny because I'll say one
of the things uh when we had our board
retreat um
this project the the community land
trust was one I had heard from a couple
of other people from other departments
that this was exciting to them and I
think that was really really awesome
feedback because you know we we've been
trying to work on a roads initiative
we've tried to work on a bunch of other
things but the fact that they saw this
as as something they're excited about
was very um fulfilling for me and I
appreciate everything you've done Daniel
Della because I know you have created
you you you've you are you are the
housing department [laughter]
and you've create you know you're you're
starting from scratch to create this is
from new I know um so this is such an
important piece we've seen what they've
done in the city of Lasus so I'm hope
you I think as Miss Green said, I'm
excited for the future partnerships and
how we can continue to do that. And I
think doing this in the East Mesa is
because that's been the area of
significant growth in Commissioner
Chabato's district makes absolute, you
know, I'm excited for how that that
grows and and brings more to the
community and continues that. So, thank
you so much, Daniela.
Thank you. And if I may, please can open
um attachment 14.
Let's see if we can give another good
news
[laughter]
to the beginning.
Mr. Chair, you were mentioning about the
Solaris Springs um subdivision that was
presented um last month. So in June 23,
2026, the community development
department and Ken Thirstston
development presented the Solaris
Springs community type and preliminary
plat approval at the BUCC meeting.
[clears throat] In response to these the
board's feedback regarding traffic
concerns and noted that this is the
first county's uh community type
subdivision leadership, county community
development and the housing department
evaluated a potential partnership with
the developer to promote affordable
housing. As the Solar Spring subdivision
develops and traffic increases at these
primary access points, road improvements
will be necessary because the county
already plans to expand Peach Tree Hills
Road. Adding the third line presents an
efficient solution. Hornado Road could
be another potential improvement to be
considered. In exchange for this county
investment, the developer will dedicate
lots from the Solaris Springs
subdivision to the community land trust,
providing opportunities for subvice
um subsidized [clears throat]
permanently affordable home ownership.
If the board supports this potential
partnership, the county and Kent
Thirstston developers will proceed with
negotiation to formalize a development
agreement.
As we can see in the screen, this is the
originally um submitted preliminary plot
from Solaris Springs. Uh we can see the
area for at the south of Petri Hills
Road that will need improvement
potentially Hornado Road on the um west
side.
Any comments?
[laughter]
No, I'm I'm a I'm excited for the
partnership [laughter]
uh and get us because I think that you
know um anything we can do to to you
know move forward with with the land
trust even um and create
I know it won't be you know I think for
the it'll be the first land trust in the
area. Um, and so I'm excited for how we
can show we can bring this tool to the
community and and hopefully create
generational wealth. So I'm excited.
This is really good news.
I was just speechless because, you know,
where do you where do you go with with
that? So thank you.
[laughter]
I'm glad.
I think it's great. We don't often get
that kind of good news unexpectedly.
That's nice. I I agree. We need to do
whatever we can and this is a
anything to help the community land
trust, I think, as well. I think it's
such a great concept and and it's going
to serve a lot of people and I I'm
excited about this too. Thank you.
Thank you all. I think that's your new
you know I think there is yes interest
that we want to move forward with it.
Absolutely.
Thank you. Thank you everyone.
Is that uh that was the the grand
and this is the grand finale of the
housing update. [laughter] I appreciate
your attention.
Thank you Daniela.
All right.
Um the Did you want us to
All right. The the second item on our
agenda will be talking about the
community monitoring committee related
to Project Jupiter. Um, I had received a
uh a proposal from members of the public
and so I'd like to invite Miss Lyn Moore
if you'd like to come up and uh provide
this the presentation on the um on the
proposal.
And I know we we uh I know that they
just passed out the uh file you had. I
don't know if there was anything any
files you needed to present online or
any slides.
There are no slides for this
presentation at this time. I'm giving
you the full text and you'll see for
those of you who have seen an earlier
version of this, this is expanded
somewhat. This provides more detail, but
I think this will tell you everything as
to where the plan is right now. and then
of course it'll need to be tweaked as it
goes forward.
I'm Lynn Moore. I'm pleased to outline
my proposal for a community monitoring
committee related to Project Jupiter and
I thank you for considering it. I'll be
happy to answer any of your questions at
the close of my presentation
and my presentation includes several
citizens to also provide their thoughts
on this. This proposal is for an
independent information forum related to
Project Jupiter operated by and for
interested citizens. It's based on my
experience in two states where I worked
as an environmental consultant before
attending law school. In Nebraska, the
monitoring committee dealt with a
proposed nuclear waste disposal
facility. In Pennsylvania, it dealt with
a proposed commercial hazardous waste
incinerator. In each state, the city's
formation was required by state law. It
was a wise provision because in both
cases, the local monitoring committee
provided a very valuable function and
served admirably to inform citizens,
elected representatives, news media, and
the public at large through focused
meetings with key players, including
regulators involved. I think the time is
ripe for setting up a community
monitoring committee in Donaana County
to take a close look at project Jupiter
from many important perspectives. It can
provide a valuable service for education
and an essential outlet for robust
discussion about a project of immense
public interest. My proposal envisions
11 committee members who are appointed
by the board of county commissioners.
Two would be selected based on letters
of interest submitted by citizens
by each commissioner residing in their
district. The commission chair selects a
third member residing anywhere in the
county. So there's an odd number of
committee members. The commissioners
would take responsibility for selecting
committee members who have a balance of
perspectives. It would not be a good
idea to appoint to the committee any
candidates for public office or people
on a soapbox. The letter of interest,
which is the last page in your packet,
includes the contact information for
each interested citizen. This means each
commissioner can call and chat briefly
with each interested citizen in their
district to get to know them a little
better before making a decision. In
fact, I would recommend it for people
you don't already know. Finally, the
members selected may not have any
financial interest in or support of,
excuse me, no financial interest in
support of or against Project Jupiter.
Committee members would then elect their
officers who would run the committee and
all its meetings, both business meetings
and information meetings. The committee
would convene an information meeting
approximately every month depending on
availability of invited experts. Each
roughly 4hour meeting preferably during
the day on a Saturday would focus on one
main topic related to project Jupiter
selected by the committee. For example,
water usage or air emissions or economic
impact. This will allow indepth
examination and energetic discussion
regarding each main issue. The committee
might decide down the road that one or
more subjects need to be revisited for
an additional information meeting or two
because of changes the project Jupiter
companies made to their technology. For
example, if the New Mexico Environment
Department denies the requested air
permit, that will be a gamecher. Of
course, at each information meeting,
members of the committee, members of the
public, county commissioners, and news
media representatives would have an
opportunity to ask questions and or
briefly present their own research
findings on the selected topic. After
the project Jupiter representatives and
the invited experts presentations, the
public would be invited to suggest
future meeting topics, experts, and
questions at each meeting and on the
county website. The committee would
select each meeting location in Donana
County, rotating locations among the
places most directly affected by Project
Jupiter. Each information meeting would
include a break in the middle of the
meeting session when water, snacks, and
finger food can be shared. The public
will be invited to bring snacks and
finger food to share at future meetings.
And I can tell you that in Nebraska and
Pennsylvania, this was one of the
favorite parts of the meeting. a great
social occasion.
Each committee meeting would be recorded
on video, then posted on the County
Project Jupiter website. The plan is to
have a Spanish interpreter and a court
reporter assist at each committee
meeting. You all fully recognize that
Spanish interpretation is essential to
allow everyone affected by the project
to fully participate. The court reporter
would help assure that a complete
verified record of each meeting is
created. A record that is key to holding
everyone accountable. The meeting
transcripts in English and Spanish can
then be posted on the county website for
any interested party to review. With
respect to the county website, my
proposal envisions the committee having
responsibility for the website content
related to Project Jupiter, conducting
research in order to answer the
questions posed and offer new
information. This important aspect needs
to be conducted by qualified persons
with experience in vetting experts and
so-called expert information in
environmental, energy, and economic
fields. At a minimum, the county would
underwrite the committee's operating
expenses and provide logistical support.
Monies could be used for, but not
limited to travel expenses, fees and
accommodations for experts, news media
notices, rental fees associated with
meeting facilities,
refreshments for meeting breaks, a
Spanish interpreter, possibly a Spanish
translator for transcripts if it turns
out the court reporter is not a fluent
Spanish person. a person who is not
fluent in Spanish, I mean to say a court
reporter and office supplies. And no
funds would be accepted from project
Jupiter for anything related to the
committee, nor would there be any
reimbursement to project Jupiter for any
of its expenses for participation in
committee meetings. An essential
component of this proposal is that the
commission send a communication to all
project Jupiter companies instructing
them to cooperate with the committee in
all respects. This includes project
Jupiter companies participating in
information meetings when invited to
present on a topic a specific topic
selected by the committee. It also
includes providing to the committee all
its presentation materials in English
and Spanish. 96 hours or four days prior
to the meeting, as well as any other
nonsensitive documentation the committee
requests. Similar to the requirements
the US Senate committees use for their
invited witnesses and guests, this
provides all committee members the
opportunity to study the materials and
prepare informed questions prior to the
meeting, thus making the meetings far
more valuable. As soon as the committee
receives the presentation materials,
they will be posted to the website so
everyone can study them prior to the
meeting. As I see it, the information
must be provided regardless of format.
It can be provided on ordinary pieces of
paper or on spreadsheets or it can be
provided in a compilation of company
documents which record the original
data. PowerPoint presentations if used
should be provided but they don't
constitute a substitute for actual
documentation which should be provided
to the committee. It's not sufficient to
assert that information need not be
supplied because for example a state
agency doesn't have certain online
formatting issues figured out. [snorts]
This is the explanation for why project
Jupiter did not submit the first and
second quarter employment reports as
required. Project Jupiter, which is
supposed to have the underlying data,
needs to provide it regardless of
format. At last Tuesday's commission
meeting, Oracle and Stack Company
representatives could have just stated
the jobs numbers orally, omitting any
confidential information and referring
to notes if necessary. That would have
worked fine. For companies that tout
their cutting edge leadership in the
burgeoning data center industry, I have
no doubt they can solve the problem.
for example, of getting accurate and
complete employment numbers to Donana
County regularly and on time as required
if they choose to. The format does not
matter. It would be a good idea if all
commissioners attended each meeting. It
would be like attendance at a workshop,
would not involve formulation of public
policy, and thus would not violate New
Mexico's Open Meetings Act.
Commissioners may ask questions like
everyone else. They can learn and
vigorously discuss along with everyone
there. Importantly, they can share if a
project Jupiter representative told them
privately something different from what
they say at the meeting. And they can
also share their own research if they
have some. My proposal does not envision
creation of any kind of report to
memorialize what is learned at the
information meetings. rather one learns
by attending and participating at the
meeting or reviewing the video online
afterward or perhaps both.
This monitoring committee concept is
distinct from a town hall meeting in
significant ways. The monitoring
committee dives deep into one subject
per meeting with significant research
preparatory to the meeting. Also, it
features at least one expert in addition
to Project Jupiter representatives so
that there can be substantive analysis
from at least two perspectives. By
contrast, town halls deal with multiple
subjects without significant
preparation. Therefore, they don't go
very deep, and I've never seen a town
hall that had a court reporter who
transcribed everything that was said. At
best, town halls tend to be haphazard,
not very educational, and generally
unsatisfying to concerned citizens who
want to get to the bottom of the issues
important to them and who are interested
in holding the developer representatives
accountable for what they said at that
meeting. In my experience, these
monitoring committee meetings can help
peel away most of the public relations
gloss that one inevitably encounters
with projects of high public interest
and concern spurred by developers with
deep pockets. I heartily recommend this
community monitoring committee concept
to you. It is superior to all other
concepts if your goal is informed study
and robust discussion about key public
issues and I will make certain that it
is not used as a political platform or
political tool. Now I have several
citizens who are interested in also
preventing presenting uh short comments
to you in regarding this particular idea
and then once they are finished I think
there are five of them then I'll be
happy to answer your questions. Does
that work
Mr. Chair?
Are we okay with that?
Okay.
Okay. Thank you.
[clears throat]
Good morning.
Can you hear me?
Yes.
Do I need to move that? Okay.
And I don't know. I mean, you can move
it down a little bit. I just want to
make sure that way.
Okay. Better.
Better. Okay.
Good morning. My name is Joanne Bingle
and I appreciate this opportunity to
speak briefly about this terrific com
community monitoring committee. The idea
will help Diana County residents.
But first, I'd like to salute my
commissioner, Commissioner Shaparo, for
her steadfast commitment to the folks in
her district.
The community monitoring committee as a
serious study committee can help pierce
and clear much of the fog about what we
can expect to happen to us as residents
as a result of Project Jupiter, both the
positive and the negative.
for it to work as intended. I think it
is I'm sorry for to for it to work as
intended. I think it is probably true as
Lynn's experience in other states does
indicate that the committee will need
the commissioner's assistance in letting
the pro project Jupiter companies
understand clearly that they all need to
cooperate fully with the commission with
the committee I'm sorry with the
committee the company represents
the company representatives who have
spoken publicly with the commission have
committed to be here long term to have
ongoing communication with the county
residents and to be transparent and
accountable.
The Oracle representative at the board's
meeting last Tuesday committed to be
here whenever the county wanted him to
be here. Company representatives have
also enunciated a desire to combat
disinformation.
This monitoring committee will provide
the perfect vehicle to achieve that if
you help see if you help them see that
it is in their best interest to
cooperate on an ongoing basis with the
committee. And this means showing up and
presenting information when invited and
providing the documents that the
committee requests.
Even if they are slow to recognize that
cooperation is in their best interest,
your instruction to them, of course,
needs to respectfully make clear that
lack of cooperation is not an option. I
am excited that this community
monitoring committee proposal has been
put before you and there are folks in
this county who look forward to this
being adopted and I thank you very much.
Thank you.
Good morning.
Good morning, Diane Starbucks. For the
record, this community monitoring
committee will provide a great service
to Donana County. It will provide a
citizen-led information forum that goes
a long way to meeting the needs of all
citizens across the county who are
hungry for thorough factbased
information about Project Jupiter. When
the commissioners appoint two members
from each of their districts to the
committee, they can make sure that
there's a good balance of viewpoints.
There are community leaders who are
interested in serving on the committee
who are experienced in running good
informative meetings where all points of
view can be expressed.
The plan that these meetings focus on
one topic per meeting is a good idea.
This will allow us all to take a
relatively deep dive into one important
subject rather than a scattershot
approach which attempts to cover many
subjects. These scattershot meetings
usually leave citizens pretty
unsatisfied
as we could see last week. We expect to
learn a lot. This will be assisted by
the ability to ask questions of experts
and project Jupiter
representatives with adequate time for
follow-up questions and a little
dialogue so that information can be
clarified. We'll be able to receive
in-depth answers to our questions and
engage in enough dialogue
to come to better understandings of a
lot of the key information about Project
Jupiter's planned operation.
Another valuable feature of this
information forum by and for citizens is
that everything will be on record and
everyone will be able to hear the
answers. It's very frustrating when a
representative tells you some important
fact in a private chat, but there is no
way to hold them accountable for what
they said unless you're wearing a wire.
The meeting setup, where everything is
recorded and transcribed, will solve
that. Please give serious consideration
to forming a community monitoring
committee so all stakeholders can
receive solid factual information about
what is planned and underway at the huge
Project Jupiter operation. Thank you.
Thank you.
Good morning.
Good morning and thank you all very
much. Um my name is Patty Hughes. Um the
community monitoring committee I think
is an excellent idea. County residents
need a serious study committee run by
citizens that seeks and finds straight
factual answers to our questions about
Project Jupiter. This includes what
project Jupiter has been doing, what it
is doing and what it plans to do. We
need to hear from experts uh who
increase our understanding of the bigger
picture in which project Jupiter is
operating as well as from the project
Jupiter representatives.
We also need to know when these
representatives don't know the answer to
something important.
We have citizens who are interested in
being appointed to the monitoring
committee, who have the skill and
experience to organize and lead public
information meetings that accomplish
significant learning and encourage
discussion of key issues of prime
importance that are to all of us.
To be effective and have credibility,
it's critical that citizens run the
monitoring committee, not the commission
or paid outsiders. Those who have
experience with information forum
citizen committees know that moderators
have a useful uh don't have a useful
place in the meetings and are not
needed. Good committee chairs can do a
uh the job of running balanced meetings.
We know from experience that moderators
tend to do more harm than good and
become targets of distrust and derision
from concerned citizens.
Moderators invariably view their job as
keeping a lid on things. The upshot is
that in-depth questioning is squaltched
or smothered.
I encourage you to discard the moderator
idea. The community monitoring committee
concept envisions seeking input from
citizens every step of the way about
what subjects to study one at a time,
about which experts to invite, about
where in the county to meet, and about
when to meet. Occasionally, that
commitment to public in input can get
messy, but it's entirely manageable and
very worth it. This is a committee by
and for the citizens. It's also
inevitable that you commissioners will
benefit from this study and discussion
along with the committee members and the
public who also participate. I look
forward to it.
I ask each of you to move this proposal
forward and approve it as soon as
possible. Thank you.
Thank you.
Hello. Good morning.
Morning.
My name is Mark Willard. Uh my wife
Jamie and I moved here uh last August uh
from Dallas and we live in uh District 4
up by Red Hawk Golf Course and I am a
retired telecom executive. My company,
Frontier Communications, which is very
was very similar to Centry Link. Uh they
had operations in 26 states, was
acquired by Verizon last year. Uh I was
offered early retirement and then I took
it and we moved here to Los Cruus and
have enjoyed it very much. Uh when we
moved and the decisions were made on
project Jupiter, I was not in involved.
I was not aware and so forth. So got up
to speed later and uh uh would learned
how the approval process went and so
forth. And my background in my company,
I was uh in telecom for 35 years. And I
was involved primarily in business
decisions, business cases,
uh contracts, things of that nature. uh
providing uh support information and
then in my later years approving uh
decisions and uh reading the uh uh you
know the events of project Jupiter, I
was uh very familiar with the process
that was followed uh and frankly and and
you know I I think I have uh uh uh had
had a similar situation happened to me
in business before a lot of similarities
frankly. Uh so uh earlier this year I
was uh when the website went up uh I
downloaded uh documents uh that were the
contracts and agreements and member you
know in the non-disclosure agreements
what it was posted and started to dig in
investigate exactly what was promised
what was committed to what was the back
and forth and uh I sat down with Lynn a
while ago so I was reach because I was
reaching out to her in her her uh uh uh
uh legal uh capacity and uh she shared
with me an earlier version of uh her
proposal for the committee and I was
impressed and I thought that's exactly
what we need. Uh and uh so I have been
supporting her since then in that. I'm
very happy to see that it has gotten
this far with the commission and that
you're uh taken ser seriously. I think
it's exactly what needed in my mind. The
uh principal issue right now is uh what
can the county do to hold the developer
Oracle uh accountable for what has been
committed to uh and uh so I'm very
interested in helping with that. I think
my background lends to that. But I
wanted to uh speak with you briefly
today and uh lend my support as a former
corporate businessman uh to this effort.
I think it's exactly the right thing to
do. So thank you.
Thank you.
Good morning.
Good morning. Uh thanks for this
opportunity to address this issue.
Uh
what I see is uh a community that is
politically energized around this issue.
Um I am grateful for the political
energy and the citizen involvement.
Democracy is not and has never been a
spectator sport. It's for those who want
to engage and your citizens are engaged
as you saw last Tuesday. Um
I'm in dialogue constantly with people
about Jupiter.
Uh some people have no grasp of the
basic facts. For example, IRBs are not
public money.
Many people still think that the county
is investing in something. The county is
not investing in something.
uh private investors are investing and
that's a very substantial fact
but the facts haven't been established
unfortunately
uh the media has not been effective in
communicating the facts.
So, if there were a commission that
could determine fact,
that would go a long way to uh um
helping the citizens make the right
decisions.
So, whatever this commission can do to
determine fact
and shine light on these issues would be
very helpful. So, thank you. Thank you.
I am happy to entertain any questions
you may have
or comments that could be very helpful
to
Yes, Commissioner.
Thank you this morning. Thank you so
much. I am so pleased. I didn't want to
say happy four times. Um, but I'm very
pleased um with your presentation.
I must apologize for not having or not
carving out time to meet with you. I
have a full-time job, the commission,
and personal obligations at this time,
and I will carve out time next week. I
have trials the rest of the week. Um, I
think this proposal
should have been done before Project
Jupiter was voted on, quite frankly, and
that way we could have obtained the
information needed so that the community
could have been informed and that we
commissioners
would have the opportunity to represent
you adequately,
at least adequately,
if not effectively.
But moving on to to what you've stated
in the presentation
regarding video recording Spanish
interpreters and transcript. I think
that is a fabulous idea. But I will
insist on AOC certified interpreters and
I will insist on ATA
translators
so that we don't have helter skelter
translations or AI translations
because the certified interpreters in
this area will recognize the adequate
language or what is required the
required language for interpreting
required language for translation in
this particular area. It's different
from northern New Mexico. It's different
from Colorado or Florida or wherever
else um we may need them.
Uh I do have question if the committee
disagrees who who do you envision will
have the final say before going to the
county or the BOCC. Let's say there's a
dis disagreement among your uh
commission or your committee members as
to which
issue to address at a certain meeting.
I'm just thinking in the future. What
are you envisioning regarding that?
The um plan to have an odd number of
committee members was intentional. So it
so you cannot have a tie and the
majority rules and it is the committee
that decides among themselves
what to study when etc. I can tell you
from experience that the commission
should it think that it might help to
insert itself it won't. I can tell you
for sure in Nebraska or in and in
Pennsylvania where where I have
experience,
it was clear that the county
commissioners needed to stay away. That
is they can attend the meetings of
course, but they were not decision
makers once the committee was set up and
it worked fine that way. The majority
ruling uh was the end of the matter. But
I'll tell you that
there really did not appear to be any
significant disagreement. As long as the
committee was making progress, they got
people to enlighten them. We had a
steady stream of experts and um
regulatory people too. We invited people
from the applicable uh state agencies to
come explain things too. There there
were no issues. But what I envision is
if there are if there is disagreement
the majority rules and the committee
decides
and and in some cases it may be a
decision okay we're not going to do this
we're not going to go into that
particular subject we're going to go do
something else from my perspective and
from based upon so many people I have
spoken with about this idea there is a
multitude a multitude of things to
investigate and th this could go on for
a long time [laughter] in terms of
digging deep. So I think I have
confidence in folks
wi with your wisdom in selecting good um
committee members who you will chat with
enough to kind of get a feel of of them
a little bit that that we can all work
amicably together and and achieve good
work even though there may be
disagreement from time to time.
Thank you.
Yeah,
Lynn, thank you for being here and I'm
glad I did I did meet with you before.
So, not necessarily how Commissioner
Chaparo is asking, but would the
committee then report to us at some
point or any point or have you had any
any points where the committee said, "We
really need to ask the commission to do
something about this." would you bring
something to us and say we'd like to
request you look at this or do that is
there any kind of that
interaction
I suppose that's possible if after
thorough discussion among the committee
members that a um plan and a
potential goal can be well annunciated
and agreed upon. However, the one caveat
is
it cannot yield in the end any
impression that the commission is
controlling the committee. Right?
You I know that that will kill it
immediately. Okay. So there's got to be
a way if if somehow or another there's
some special thing that the committee
together based upon their research and
discussion and investigation wants to do
some have some special communication
with the commission about this. I
suppose it's feasible but I can assure
you it cannot be some sort of a
uh communication and result which would
cause there to be any question about the
independence of this citizens committee.
Right? So what what I think about it is
that this is this is an emotional it's
educational it's um supportive of the
commission and supportive of the
community and I think it's a great idea.
I think the fact that you can bring
people together and discuss things in an
intelligent manner and listen to each
other, I think it's an excellent idea
and we we just haven't I know before uh
Jupiter came the commission didn't have
a chance to do that but going forward we
can't miss this opportunity
and and may I just reiterate that your
presence is strongly encouraged at all
the meetings so that you can ask
questions along with everybody else. And
you can enlighten us if you've heard
something different from the Project
Jupiter people than what they've just
told whoever's at the meeting, the
committee and and the attendees. Um
because I know that can happen
[laughter]
that that you can have all kinds of
different um pieces of information that
don't really all add up. And so your
role in addition to supporting the
committee and appointing the members can
also be critical in helping to bring to
our attention as a participant in the
meetings. If you're seeing something or
had heard something different because we
do want to achieve as close to truth as
we can.
Mr. Chair,
please.
May I bring up some legal issues that
I'm seeing? I mean, and it's not I mean,
the the committee was a great idea, but
there's some things that I've spotted, a
few things that I've spotted, and we'll
just start with what I would think is
lowhanging fruit. The meeting format,
public will be invited to bring snacks
and finger food to share future meetings
and then county commission support. One
of the things the money could be used
for as refreshments for meeting breaks.
Um, if someone gets sick, because I made
something, and I'm I'm a terrible cook.
Please don't have me make anything. But
if someone gets sick cuz I made
something, the fingers going to be
pointed at the county because if the
county's intermingling funds for for
food and people are being invited to
bring food, people are going to point at
us. and and there's a risk issue there
with someone getting sick, food safety,
who's going to clean up at the end. Um,
if stuff needs to be stored prior to the
meeting, [snorts] who's storing it? Is
it us? Is it the county or is it is it
the public? Where is it being stored?
Uh, things like that.
Going to the county commission support.
Um, this is this is more than just, you
know, hey, we're going to underwrite.
There's appropriations, procurement
policies. We talk about uh travel
expenses, fees, accommodations for
experts, our travel policies, budget
approval. So, we should consider
identifying where that funding is coming
from, who [snorts] authorizes it, and is
there a budget cap? Because I mean, if
we're flying people in, I'm not saying
this is going to happen, but if we're
flying someone in from Switzerland
because they're the expert, where we
have experts within the state, perhaps
there's a difference there in how much
we're spending on on that. And you know,
we we want to make sure we're spending
taxpayer dollars fiscally uh
appropriately.
The commission instruction to Project
Jupiter, I'm not sure that the IRB
allows the commission to instruct
Project Jupiter to show up. Um, it does
instruct Project Jupiter to do the the
job reports, but I can get with our bond
council on that and see if the
commission has that authority to say you
will show up and you will provide these
other things as well. I I'm not sure
that that's legally possible. I I'll get
with our bond council and find out about
that. Um, commissioner participation,
it's a great idea. problem is if
commissioners start like if the chair
gets up and says well you know I spoke
to Joe Blow at Oracle and he said this
and then Commissioner Chaparo says
actually I spoke with Jane Doe at stack
and she said that the commissioner
Kimble comes up and says actually I
spoke with so and so at Yucka Growth and
they said this now you're having a
discussion even if it's in a public
center now you're literally talking with
each other and you might have an MA
issue there and so I I I I don't want
there to be an OMA violation
If if the way to resolve that is it's a
public meeting, then it's a public
meeting and we we put out an agenda
notice and all. But to say that it it
would not violate, I think I think
that's that's coming to a conclusion
that we we can't be sure of at this
point.
Couple more things. Um this whole thing
is great, but it doesn't say when the
committee ceases to exist. Does it ever
cease to exist? Does it exist in
perpetuity? for 30 years with the IRB.
When does it cease to exist? At what
point does it through construction
construction operations?
And is the board does the board have the
ability to dissolve this committee if it
doesn't if there's nothing there saying
it ceases to exist at some point? Is
there a sunset date? Um,
and to uh Commissioner Kimble's point,
is there annual reports submitted as to
what was discussed, what has been
changed?
um doesn't remain necessary. So it
should address the duration, sunset,
periodic review and authority for
dissolving it.
And with regards to the moderator, you
know, if if if an outside moderator is
not wanted, that's that's legally
sufficient. But to make sure that the
the it's run that there's an order to
this, there should be procedures, you
know, procedural rules. Perhaps the
board writes it up, perhaps the
committee writes it. Someone writes a
procedural rules. So, whoever the
moderator is sticks to those rules, the
chair of the of the committee, whoever
the committee chooses is going to chair
the place or whoever they might choose
as a moderator. Um, can ensure that the
meeting is administered fairly
consistently. Uh, because if we just
have a hodgepodge of people talking,
people are going to start interrupting
each other. Someone needs to keep order
regardless of the the public wanting to,
well, you don't want to be loud, that's
great, but someone needs to keep order.
Are there time constraints on on on
input what have you? So those are the
things I I guess to sum it up. The
proposal itself has a number of
operational recommendations that presume
that there is legal authority for the
committee to receive county funding
direct county resources. I'll go back to
the project Jupiter require their
cooperation and it's essentially
operating as part of county government.
So we have to identify and I'll look up
the project Jupiter thing legal sources
for each proposed authority and
determine if implementation require an
ordinance resolution contract amendment
perhaps budget appropriations or other
formal actions from the committee from
the from the from the commission. I
apologize. Thank you chair.
So um thank you Alenc
[clears throat and cough]
sorry about that. Um I I I think on the
first two items those are kind of more
procedural issues in terms of you know
the funding and the food and things like
that. Logistical wise we can figure that
out. I think also in terms of
reimbursement you know we can probably
coordinate especially using state rules
in terms of um
reimbursement for travel and things like
that. So, we don't we don't run a file
of any state laws, but I'm sure I think
there's quite a few local
um experts potentially from NMSU within
the state, uh NM Techch, uh you know,
maybe even UNM, wherever we may find
them. Um I think there's a lot of
potential. So I think I I understand
kind of putting limits but we can I
think like I said logistically we could
work through those details
and perhaps have them in the in the
proposal or whatever the proposal ends
up being in it finalized form that they
can do everything in their power to keep
it locally or to keep the the cost down
or we could potentially create you know
the you know I think memorialize I don't
know if memorialize is the right word
technically but you know we could as I
guess as a commission approve this and
then while we don't put those details in
as the board moves forward or gets
created and then they can help determine
with us how those come up. So that way
we're we're in agreement and
everybody's, you know, we can probably
figure at least that that's in my mind
what we could potentially do. Um I I
think you're right on
the
compelling companies to participate.
I I don't know that we would have that
legal authority to tell them and force
them to participate. However,
um
you know,
may I may I speak one as soon as you're
finished?
Yes, please. Yeah. I I was just going to
say I think what what what comes what it
comes down to is,
you know, they may not legally have to,
but I think we're
I don't know if this is the right way to
put it. So, if it comes out in a in
maybe the not wrong way, I I think we're
at some point understand where the legal
requirements are and the contractual
requirements are of the IRB. Understand
that. But I think in some ways when it
comes to
this topic, we're well beyond
contractual obligations. And the reason
I say that is because um you know
going back a few years, no one batted an
eye at a data center.
But understanding the where we're at in
terms of political and or public concern
around this
to me from a community standpoint,
it would serve the companies as well as
obviously the county, but especially the
companies coming in to share the
information. And I think one of the
questions I was going to have for Miss
Moore was around, you know, trying to
make sure, you know, when if they're to
comply with this, you know, trying to
manage what is proprietary versus what's
not. Uh because I think there's a lot of
public information when you look that
that's already submitted. So, um air
permits, that's public knowledge. Um
commitments in the water, that's all
public knowledge. How are they going to
meet those requirements? those to me th
that can be very public and and part of
this conversation. Now, they don't need
to get into how specifically they design
it or operate and do all that. I think
there's, you know, we don't need to
maybe go into that level, but I think
where the the public is concerned,
there's that piece of it. So I I
understand I think we can maybe work
through those all those items that you
noted to I guess to get to a final
and I think it's a matter of verbiage
maybe requesting or inviting or
encouraging them to go you know versus
you will show up to your point they'd
probably be better off showing up but
you know who are we to say right um and
but back to the food thing one more time
my concern wasn't that the county
provides you my concern is the public's
invited to give
a liability yes understand.
All right.
This was a proposal to help things along
and I think this is entirely workable
and this mirrors what I know has worked
in two other states. Mr. Attorney, I
know from experience or else I would not
have offered it. Uh this is a successful
model.
I know that we have had numerous
offers to meet most recently at the last
meeting from the Oracle representative
who said he was committed to be here
whenever the county wants him to be
here. So I see this letter as taking him
up on the offer and taking up I went
back and looked at the tape. Um
Napier,
Mr. Napier who made promises in
September uh which was the meeting when
the IRB was approved. He also made
similar proc uh promises. All right. So
the letter is a matter of taking them up
on their offers and I had spoken with
Mr. Lopez about being ready with a very
um welldrawn up draft of that letter to
be able to put those promises in there.
and I wasn't going to bring any sort of
a heavy legal uh aspect to it. That
would have been politically stupid and I
am not politically stupid. All right.
Yeah. And and I I did want to note and
maybe this is something just just a
thought.
The IRB approval was a hearing. And so
if Mr. Napier did commit to that, I I'd
have to go back and look.
It's on the tape. Yes.
Then that's part of the hearing record.
And so maybe that's an opportunity to
utilize some of that. Now, I know he's
not committing for all of the entities
for it, but being, you know, being the
representative that spoke, there might
be an opportunity to to leverage that
testimony.
Miss Morren, I did not mean to offend
you. I apologize for that. Um I I know
this has worked. You've you explained
that here. So that was in no way my
intent. how just finding legal things
that I bring it up
and and and I would not have been coming
here to waste anybody's time if I didn't
know that this would work just fine. Now
the other aspect of it is that um we
have some very good talented people who
are interested in being on the committee
who know how to run meetings and so they
know how to in fact that is the goal to
encourage robust discussion a balance of
points of view and absolutely we want to
hear from the project Jupiter people and
the experts that's why we're inviting
them so it would be entirely
counterproductive to let it devolve into
well it never would it would not devolve
into any sort of chaos. All right. So
rest assured order will be kept that is
not going to be an issue. The only thing
that I intentionally left up in the air
and I uh thought that the committee the
commission can decide this whenever it
seems appropriate is when the committee
should then be dissolved. And I think
there are so many different steps along
the way that could happen that could
cause an impetus for having it dissolve
that it would be foolish for me to be
any more specific along the way. Just in
general, we might say it will exist as
long as the commission thinks there it
serves a good purpose and and that is
amorphous enough to cover the basis. I
think there's many things that can be
developing down the road and it would be
completely
idiotic to establish a particular time
frame for this. I think that's the
beauty of this particular committee idea
that it can respond to developments.
Mr. Chair.
Yes, Commissioner. If I could just say
um first of all funding I think this
could be covered under economic
development outreach
because that's what we're talking about
is this economic development project and
I may be wrong there but I think we
could do it under because the commission
doesn't have a budget for things like
this. So economic development outreach.
The second thing is what if we put it on
there as
um time limited to the end of this
fiscal year because funds will need to
be attached and then renewed as as
necessary at the fis end of the fiscal
year because if they're going to be
funds we have to have it in a budget.
And so we can't just say indefinitely
and then this goes on for 30 years and
we're still doing it. So it every at the
first of every year perhaps we could
renew it and see if we need more
funding, less funding, see if it wants
to continue. It gives it's a touch
point.
Yeah.
On should the committee continue.
Yeah. And I'm open to how we want to do
it especially like I understand what
you're saying in terms of providing a
budget so that we can continue on. Um I
I I you know we can entertain that. Um I
I had and I think a couple of concerns
that I had and I think this is where I
think in the in terms of the length
because I think this is I think like
you're saying Miss Moore is appropriate.
So, one of the pieces that I think is is
a very valid point, and we've already
seen this with Project Jupiter, um,
because it it happens with a lot of
commercial and industrial projects that
sometimes what you plan at step one will
change along the way. Um, and we've
already seen a couple of those changes
within Project Jupiter. Um, and it's
that is normal. Um,
but I think it's also a valid point to
be able to come back and say, hey, you
know, when when we last when we talked
on this day during this presentation,
this was your plan, that's now changed.
Could we come back and revisit to
understand the details of how that plan
has changed and what the impact is?
Because I think, like I said, so I I
think that's kind of the the potential
benefit of not having or at least trying
to figure out how long we can we can
have this. Um so I I like that idea um
to be able to to have it over because
construction phase will continue through
um is my understanding. And so I think
as as things move forward, it gives us
opportunity to be able to address that.
Um my real
I I I mean I support this because I
think very clearly and my hope is this
is that
we've as you know I think as we have the
presentations and we've had the
information when you start getting into
the details is where all of that really
kind of where we address a lot of those
concerns
and when I've had communication or
discussions with people. Um, I've been
told that I'm ignorant, that I'm don't
understand this, that I was fooled, that
I've taken bribes, that I've I could go
down the list of criticisms that I've
had when I've done my research. And so
my hope is is that if this information
comes from the community or directly
from the developers that hopefully
that's the information and the fact that
we get out of this and that's my hope of
this committee is that we can as you
said take the commission out of this
and be able to bring facts because I
think within the the information when
you have those facts and establish the
facts
there will be a little bit better
understanding. It's not perfect
understand that's not what I'm saying
here but just trying to share the facts
and and and
you know that that to me is what drives
a lot of this. Um my only question I had
and I know you've kind of addressed
around the moderator piece of it
already. So, um, [clears throat] but
one, I didn't know if a court reporter
was necessary or not. I know through uh
AI tools and I know Commissioner Chap
will tell me I know particularly when it
comes to the Spanish translation it's
not always the best but I didn't know
like if you have if if this is going to
be online or recorded if um you know the
the transcript from the system would be
adequate or if there was a need for the
court reporter. There is a need for the
court reporter. The AI
business that looks at this sort of
thing is not adequate. I think that's
just fair to say it is not adequate. And
I appreciate you mentioning the fact
that we're looking for the facts. Okay.
And so when I um commented that this
might be an opportunity for you to state
a fact that you heard from project
Jupiter person A, which was different
from what commissioner Chaparo from
heard from project Jupiter developer
number two, that you can state those
facts. It is not formulation of public
policy. So I disagree with your legal
analysis respectfully.
What is prohibited in the New Mexico
open meetings act is formulation of
policy. You're not formulating policy.
You're sharing facts or you're
discussing information that you have
learned or want to clarify, you know. So
you have a little bit of dialogue with
the expert or a little bit of dialogue
with Mr. Oracle. [laughter]
I'm sorry, I forget his last name. And
[clears throat] um and and to get the
facts, but you're not formulating
policy. And I think it's very important
that all of you are there to the extent
that you're able to be there and are
interested in it because then another
important part of this is that you're
hearing then from all the folks who do
attend and and share their questions and
concerns. And it is not formulation of
policy and it will not violate the New
Mexico Open Meetings Act in my legal
opinion.
Yeah. And I and I think I'll actually,
you know, we can have discussion about
it. I actually will have to lean I
probably lean more on I think the
concern that Mr. Meases is bringing up
mainly because um you know we can we
could probably figure it out. Um because
in my mind I I don't want to put any of
the board the county commission into any
type of uh compromising situation where
people could potentially do that. But
I'm not saying we shouldn't you know I'm
open to kind of how we want to handle
it. Uh but you know, in my mind, what I
it got me thinking of doing was when
every time there's one of these uh
planned that we could have at least two
of us that are signed up to go and then
the others could watch online, but we we
can figure that all out. I I don't like
I said, I I just don't want we can
figure that out. That's a it's a
logistical thing that we can determine.
Absolutely. I want to be there to
listen. Um, I just don't want to put us
in a in a compromising situation where
someone could accuse us of violating the
Open Meetings Act. Yes, Commissioner
Publish that there might be a quorum. Is
that sufficient? Because if we're all at
the same meeting and we talk and we go,
"Hey, where do you want to go lunch?"
And we make a decision, we're breaking
open meetings if we make a decision
together.
No. Again, I think it goes goes back to
whether you're discussing what's taking
place versus let's go get lunch. um you
can public you can publish a notice of
possible quorum um but you start
deliberating amongst yourselves out loud
and that's where that's where we'll
we'll differ and that's okay um I I
think that may that may get to that
point
and Mr. Chair if I may please
and just to Mr. Estus I I heard what you
said funding budget instructing project
Jupiter to uh show up. OMA uh when is
this project to commence? When does it
dissolve? Having an annual report I'm
writing really fast and you speak fast
by the way periodic review order and
procedure and Miss Moore with all due
respect I do agree with Mr. Meest
as regarding the open meetings act. We
have to be very careful about that. The
state auditor is really watching and as
they should be and we as commissioners
should be watching that open meetings
act as well. So we're going to going to
have to be very careful to address that.
How I it can be addressed in my mind. It
can be addressed.
We'll just have to really lean on Mr.
Miestas as to how to craft our
attendance because I honestly believe
that all the commissioners would like to
attend. Whether we show up at the same
time or not, uh I'm not sure. Um what's
going to happen with that?
I appreciate
this idea. I really really do. Um but
we're going to I'm going to lean on Mr.
Mestus heavily for this. And thank you
for protecting us, Mr. Mestus, because
sometimes we blunder. Another thing I'd
like to also mention is
if approached by any party, whatever
party it is, for or against, to resist
the temptation to have dinner, coffee,
lunch, or whomever, with parties that
might want to influence the committee.
I anticipate that we will take that
issue up at the first business meeting.
you the first organizational meeting
where officers are elected and I see
that as one of the things to be
discussed and probably adopted by the
committee. Um I thought it
[clears throat] would be presumptuous of
me to put too many specific formulations
down on paper because the committee
needs to be deciding a lot of these
things. But I uh recognize that concern
and I share it. But I didn't think now
was the time to spell that out and
because I've already spelled out the
prohibition on having any financial
interest in either for or against
Project Jupiter, but I I anticipate that
being considered and discussed any
policy adopted at the first business
meeting.
Thank you.
If it's okay, Mr. Chair, may I just
clarify one more thing on the open
meetings at compliance?
What it comes to in my view is that you
all commissioners will be able to
exercise enough discipline in your
conversations with each other. I mean
that is at the meeting so that you're
just asking questions. You see it's the
this is the subject matter of what
you're talking about. If you're asking
questions, clarifying, getting
information, there should be no problem.
It's like a workshop. But if then you
are putting your heads together to say
well maybe we should consider doing
something then that is getting into
discussing policy and that's where you
need to draw the line. You don't do
that. You see, and that's where I don't
see a problem with you all attending if
you are disciplined enough to keep your
conversation your your public utterances
[gasps]
questionoriented and getting your
answers clarified.
Okay.
Thank you for allowing me to clarify
that.
And thank you, Miss Moore. I I have
confidence that the commissioners are
disciplined to do that.
I do too. That's why however
the citizens or those participating in
the meeting may not understand that and
demand
answers. So if we can move forward to
clarifying that along with our legal
counsel. I've been to meetings where
I've been put on the spot and sometimes
people don't understand that we're not
able to answer questions about lawsuits
or whatever discussions we've had in
close session. So we need to make that
very very clear. Thank you.
Thank you. And I I think one other
caveat that we may need to make and I
don't think this should be an issue is
just simply that because it's a
community uh monitoring committee that
they wouldn't necessarily be speaking on
behalf of the county or um making
policy. I think other than other than
that piece of it, I mean, it's like I
said, I I just like I know I know that's
a kind of a disclaimer piece, but I also
feel like because it's going to be
separated from
the [clears throat] commission that we
just kind of state that this is where it
is so that it people don't misconstrue
that. But otherwise, I like I said, I I
I like the idea of it being driven by
the community to be able to um I I think
when when we spoke about it, my
concern around the town hall idea was
that town like like and you've addressed
it here, town halls can be a mile wide
and an inch deep. And like I said, when
it comes down to it, I love the idea of
having specific topics so that you can
get into um into those details and
discuss it because I think like I said,
that's where um that's where it really
matters. So I I like that idea.
And I have another suggestion that might
help also in this is that um this
chairperson who will be very competent
for the committee. Um, I envision this
person making an opening statement
clarifying things. I mean, kind of like
setting the the not exactly the rules of
the road, but clarifying for everybody
about what this committee is. And then
also clarifying that the commissioners
who are here today are not wearing their
commissioner hats. They're here as
ordinary Donana County residents who are
learning along with all the rest of us.
And they intend to participate just like
the rest of us. and their questions are
are just as your questions are just as
important as their questions. That sort
of thing to try to level the ground if
if possible at least that's an idea and
and I think that that would go a long
way to helping quite a few of the folks
also would help take a little heat off
of y'all.
Mr. Chair.
Yes, Commissioner Kimble.
Miss Moore, if I could ask, what do you
want your role to be in on this
committee? Are you going to apply to be
one of the members?
Yes. Or if we talked about getting a
moderator, would you be the moderator?
No, I don't think we need a moderator.
No,
I just I just wanted to make sure
because if if we say, "Okay, this is a
committee Miss Moore brought to us and
this is what we're going to do." And
everybody goes, "Okay, what do we do
now?" And you're not there.
I just want to make sure.
I live in Hope.
I live in the chair's district.
I He knows this.
[laughter]
I am going to I am going to fill out my
letter of interest just like everybody
else.
[laughter]
Okay. So, I don't know if there are no
other questions. Um, I guess the next
thought would be it would be possibly
either on the next meeting or on the
25th and then that way. Okay.
I I don't know that. Well, I don't I
don't think all of us will be on the
25th. That'll be the one that I'll be
out and I don't know if Yeah. So, we'll
have to figure out how we
Mr. Chair, if I may, uh, we are prepared
to go ahead and quickly add a resolution
item on for next week's meeting for this
because of your absence on the 25th. Um,
but I do have some questions that if
we're going to do this quickly that we
need some answers to.
Okay. So, uh,
do you need them now today or can is it
something we talk about?
We would need it kind of a nod from the
commissioners as to what direction we
go. Number one is is a resolution the
appropriate
document to bring forward um that kind
of clarifies the purpose of this
committee, how it's going to be set up.
Um
is the committee one thing that that we
don't have in here. Um is a committee
going to be required to to establish
bylaws within the committee that they
will operate under? Um, we can certainly
include in a resolution uh that the
procurement pro process must be
followed. Um, kind of to one of the
comments, I'm not sure which of you
mentioned it, but uh it would need to be
most likely some kind of formal
committee uh established by the board.
Otherwise, we wouldn't be able to use
public funds for it, I believe. Um uh
but otherwise the the OMA issues, we can
probably work with our uh our county
attorneys to to give you all some good
guidance between now and then. That may
not need to be part of the resolution.
Um, and just as a reminder, next
Wednesday, hopefully you all will be
there when the attorney general's office
is down here providing us the Open
Meetings Act training. And that might be
a great opportunity to ask some very
specific questions of the AG's office
staff uh for anything that you might
have questions on uh related
specifically to this. Um and then uh for
for Miss Moore, um you've got in uh in
the the document food from outside.
Public would be invited to bring that
in. Is that a sticking point or would
you be good with the county just
provides it?
I it I'm happy to have that adjusted as
seems to be the wisest way to go. I put
it in there because it was a very
successful builder of camaraderie in the
in Nebraska and in Pennsylvania and it
helped give people ownership of the
citizens ownership of the committee that
helped they wanted to show up if they
were on the fence as to whether or not
to come to a meeting. They wanted to
show up to show off their latest recipe.
Understood. I I I think within the
procurement process, we might be able to
work with the committee on uh on
opportunities to support local
businesses in the area that would be
able to provide safe food. Uh that kind
of meets the same intent. Uh happy to
talk with you on that,
Mr. Chair.
Yes.
I think all we need to do is say let's
put a broad resolution. You have you as
chair can do that. We can't vote now
today. Yes. you as chair can put a
resolution on the next meeting to say we
can look at this committee because we're
also going to need funding if we're
going to be in different places to
record the meetings or to to broadcast
them. There's going to be other funding
as well because not everywhere the
committee might choose is going to have
this kind of um you know technology
there to do it. So I think we just need
to put it on you as chair can choose to
put it on the
Yeah, we can
on the next agenda and then we can
develop everything after it's on the
agenda and approved to investigate.
Do much between now and then.
No, no, no. I I would say that that
would be give us at least good a good
framework. Um I think because the other
part in my mind was I I'd love to see
how like once the for the committee's
there and formed, you know, we could
then determine the budget needed
potentially for that and approve it.
that if we already have a resolution
that's approved, then we can say, "Oh,
based on this resolution,
um, we're going to approve this budget
amount to support this resolution kind
of thing." So, I think the resolution
makes sense to to pass first, but we can
leave a couple of things open and then
come back and and approve them based off
of the commission's already approved the
resolution. It makes a lot in my mind
easier because we're just now doing
other things to support that.
Okay.
Awesome.
All right. Thank you, Miss Moore.
Thank you very much for your
consideration and your um public
service, all of you.
Thank you. All right.
I know Mr. Beckus, I know we don't
generally allow public input during a
work session, but
if you'd like to come up, I'll
two minutes more.
Um, and I did hand this up.
I want to endorse this committee
as as a opportunity. I I think it will
be long term, but I also want to request
you consider something that needs to be
done in the next six weeks because
that's when the air quality permit will
be decided at that meeting. And uh I
think that there's a whole lot of facts
that are available and I've summarized
some facts and just to point out that
I've been a expert witness for utility
matters for over 40 years and I've been
an expert witness in every El Paso
Electric case in the last three decades
that they've had. And so when I tell you
that uh and I'll just leave this one
main point. Project Jupiter's output for
KW of power is over 900. May I this is
going above the agenda that's been
posted for the work session. I think
this needs to be uh spoken about at a
later time.
Okay. I I'd like to talk to you whenever
you can and if someone can if you could
talk afterwards, one or more of you, I'd
very much appreciate an appointment.
Okay.
Thank you.
Understand? Thank you, Mr. Beck.
I endorse the committee. Thank you.
Thank you. All right. And I think with
that uh that's the end of our agenda for
today. So I appreciate uh uh the those
that participated today and we will see
you all. Well, we'll call this meeting
well, we'll call it adjourned at 11:47
a.m. and we will see you next week on uh
next Tuesday at August 11th, 9:00 a.m.
Thank you.