[Music]
okay good afternoon everyone welcome to
the work session of the las cruces city
council today is monday november 22nd
approximately 1 pm
before we have our pledge of allegiance
i'm going to ask you please rise for a
brief moment of silence for the five
individuals who died including children
at the waukesha wisconsin parade as well
as the 40 that are injured and this also
marks the 58th year
president john f kennedy was
assassinated
please join me in the pledge
thank you
okay so we're gonna have our pet of the
week and jennifer martinez from our
communications office will be presenting
them
good afternoon mayor and council i am
jennifer martinez with the city's
communications office
and i am pleased to announce to you our
pets of the week and the first one that
i will tell you about is our cat atlas
atlas is a one-year-old sweetheart who's
constantly got his per motor running
he loves attention and getting pet he is
a loving companion that would love to
have a forever home for the holidays
and then of course we have our dog keira
kare's about a year and a half old and
she is a very happy-go-lucky girl she
loves walks and would really fit into a
multitude of family types if you can
give these two their greatest gifts for
the holiday of course that would be your
love attention and a place to rest in
your home they would be forever grateful
there's also a black friday adoption
special that will begin november 26th
and run through sunday the 28th it would
be half off all adoptions and if you're
interested in either of these two you
can call to make an appointment at
382-018
and that's a call to the animal service
center of the messiah valley and you can
visit with kyra or atlas just make sure
you have their animal number and as you
can see three six three four five is
kira's number and three eight seven five
one is atlas's number thank you mayor
okay thank you jennifer
now we'll have our jobs of the week and
i see dr francisco pallades coming
forward so
thank you mr mayor
and congratulations on that mba mr mayor
thank you very much
for today's jobs of the week we have a
deputy director of human resources here
in the city of las cruces and this
position is open until filled
we also have a donation attendant and
this is with the salvation army and this
position is going to be closing on
february the 9th of next year program
managers also require needed for
volunteer programs and this is with the
american red cross and this position is
going to be open until february the 10th
of next year there's also a receptionist
that we're looking for at families and
youth incorporated fyi
and this position is going to be closing
on january the 14th of next year also we
have a night warehouse laborer this is
going to be with admiral uh beverage
corporation and this position is going
to be open one day before valentine's on
february the 13th for a full list of
jobs internships and volunteer
opportunities please visit
employeenm.com as well as government
jobs dot com forward slash careers
forward slash las cruces and if you need
further information about workforce
related um
workforce related items
the office with new mexico warforce
connections is located at 226 south
alameda boulevard and their phone number
is 5246
thank you very much mr mayor
thank you dr payadis
okay we have one item on the agenda and
before we again just want to let you
know i know it's cold in here we're
having a mechanical problem
and they're working on it
so
if you have your jacket somewhere
feel free to run and go get it but in
the meantime we have one item on the
agenda
3.1 which is sustainable
zero carbon development for new
construction
in municipal owned buildings
council mayor um jenny hernandez with
the sustainability office
i'm sorry can you state your name one
more time please yeah jenny hernandez
with the sustainability office the
sustainability specialist
thank you
and um as the mayor mentioned it's
really cold in here so excuse me if i
start shaking i'm not nervous just
kidding
so we'll go ahead and get started um
today we'll be discussing sustainable
and zero carbon development for new
construction and municipal owned
buildings and so today what i'll be
reviewing is the resolution that we plan
to bring forward on december 20th and
we'll go over just some background on it
and then
the path moving forward for that
so some of the supporting policies that
already exist
that will support this resolution that
we're proposing to bring forward
falls under our elevate plan so policy c
e 8.1 encourage new green building
technologies for development and then
action ce 8.11 is strive for leed
certification in the design of all city
buildings until the city has ordinances
and standards with similar outcomes and
then there's action ce 8.3
0.2
develop energy transition roadmap with
the strategies to determine determine
path to clean energy
and then other
goals that also support this resolution
are under the council strategic plan
theme three achieve the goals included
in the climate action plan which was
adopted in 2020 and then in our actual
climate action plan um this resolution
that we're proposing falls under be2 and
be a1 which is building energy sector
strategies and building net zero energy
municipal buildings
and so to fall in line with that we
actually have this resolution will
actually support
state um
regulations as well so there's the
energy transition act
which basically states that
the electric sector has to move to
cleaner energy renewable energy and so
here we have a really nice graph that
shows if we continue business as usual
what that energy transition act will
look like and so if you notice the blue
bars are your electric admissions and
this is assuming that this um
population growth stays stable and so
you'll notice that by
2025 40
of the electric i'm sorry 40
of our electricity will be based um will
be renewable energy and then 50
will be renewable energy by 2030 and if
we jump to
2040 it will be 80
and then completely clean by 2045. now
if you look at the orange bars that is
our natural gas emissions and this is
showing that it's actually going to
increase as we approach 20 45 and so
this is really critical because again
it's business as usual but this is going
to help us understand the resolution as
we're moving forward so kind of keep
this graph in mind
so
we actually brought this to the prc
sustainability and transportation
committee
because we realized that there was some
confusion on some of the wording and a
lot of the wording gets thrown around so
we really wanted to make sure that we
all had a clear understanding of what
these different meanings mean this is
important when we were starting to draft
the resolution and really understand
what the goal of the city was and so i'm
going to go ahead and go through some of
these definitions and we're comparing
them against each other and so the first
two are status quo so again think of
that graph i just showed you that's us
doing absolutely no changes or
modifications and then compare it to
net zero electric
so this is only for electric so the fuel
type is mixed fuel meaning you have
electric and gas
and then net zero is solar with mixed
fuel so gas and still electric and the
goal of both of status quo is obviously
no plans right we don't want to make any
changes for net zero it's that all
renewable energy for electricity
um is free of greenhouse gas emissions
and so on that graph according to the
energy transition act by 20 what was it
2050 or 2045 that's going to be feasible
right it's going to be all clean whether
we do anything or not and so when we
start to look at the greenhouse gas
emissions free electricity for each of
these
um
the status quo we're going to show
decreasing naturally we saw that in the
graph and then for net zero we see that
it's actually going to be completely
zero right because eventually the grid
is going to be total renewable energy
and in terms of our natural gas
greenhouse emissions there's going to be
no change in greenhouse gas emissions in
fossil fuels and under our net zero
there will be no change in greenhouse
gases and fossil fuels either because
it's mixed right and so the method of
implementation this means how can we get
to each of these
and so
in status quo we don't need to do
anything right and at zero electric we
have available through net metering or
community solar to help upset that
so then the next three definitions we
move into
total building focus right
and so the first one electric ready this
means we're just getting the building
ready for that transition
and so that has mixed field 2 it's
electric and natural gas and then zero
carbon development means that we are
actually making that transition and so
that has all electric and some solar and
then net zero i'm sorry zero emission
building means it's all electric and
it's all renewable energy right so
that's like
absolutely
the
i would even say everyone's main goal
right our idealized version but as we go
through this and using the graph that we
previously saw we're going to show you
that
zero carbon development if
the resolution which is moving us
towards that can actually make zero
emissions building
very possible
and so when we start to talk about
greenhouse gases and natural gas
greenhouse gases compared across these
three definitions
electric ready just means that we are
decreasing our greenhouse gases and we
talk about zero carbon development um
again electric greenhouse gas emissions
are going down and then when we talk
about zero emissions building there's
zero greenhouse gases gas gases coming
from this building
when we talk about natural gas in
electric ready there's no change in
greenhouse gas emissions um in fossil
fuels and in zero carbon development you
have fossil fuel free and there's zero
greenhouse gases because you're not
relying on any type of fossil fuels for
that and then zero emissions building is
fossil fuel free as well and you have
zero greenhouse gases and the method of
implementation for each of these
is under electric ready you can make an
ordinance to amend
the current international energy
conservation codes which is the iecc
2018 which we currently follow and add
stipulation slash wording for electric
ready and then for zero carbon
development
you can do the same thing but you add
the wording for all electric and
an example is you can also add that
legal wording into the plaques
for say a development like east loman
and create mlus with partnerships and
for the zero emissions building you
create a resolution slash ordinance but
also increasing the renewable energy so
you ensure that you're able to meet
those energy needs for that building
and again all of this pertains to new
construction and a definition of new
construction under
city owned subsidized or developed by
the city
and so when we started looking at this
and writing up the resolution we really
took some time to make sure that
we were
aware of the barriers but also how we
can address those barriers
and even in the conversation with the
prc we realized that the main one was
resistance to change right um
and it's not that these technologies are
new or they're not happening
i know that counselor sorg has an
all-electric house so these things are
happening the public knows about it
they're aware
but sometimes the wording you know is
can be scary and slash again those
definitions get mixed up
and so we really wanted to make sure
that when we bring this resolution
forward that we're
helping city staff and the building
community really make this transition
and that they're comfortable with it and
so what we're proposing for this
barrier
is that we do an annual conference that
provides guidance and education on zero
carbon development and we think that
that will really help get everyone the
understanding that they need but also
the training right the technical portion
of the of the training for that and
along with that
we sent the resolution
that we are proposing to all relevant
departments and ask for their comments
and review and then this last friday we
actually brought into experts one in
water
conservation and the other technicality
of the codes to help us
address those questions and comments and
concerns that we got from the relevant
departments that we sent it to
um and and so they were able to have a
conversation with our experts and you
know just learn about how other cities
made some of these transitions
and then the second barrier is obviously
the additional cost this this is that
does bring forward an additional cost to
some of these things
but there are multiple rebates and
potential federal funding that's going
to come down to assist with
covering those additional costs we've
also seen that there's a five to six
percent cost in um savings and cost and
time when natural grass is not
implemented into the new construction
and the ones on the right um the no
ducks this is more residential it's more
common in residential but the longer
life cycle and the efficiency of
technology
is definitely
a pro to
the up foot cost because if you do the
analysis you have it's been projected
from rocky mountain institute that some
of these higher efficient technologies
last longer than the traditional ones um
and then again just more efficient
technology the second portion of one of
the barriers is the workforce training
we realize that once we're ready to
scale this up outside of
the city leading this initiative that we
really don't have the expertise
to provide these services to
residentials who want to make these
changes as well and so in the future
slash congruently we're looking to do
workforce to really build up the
workforce and this is also a component
when we start to think about our lmi
community and really how we can offer
them the opportunity to be involved in
this workforce
and then policy changes
so that's also a barrier which connects
resistance to change
but it's
luckily we are able to adopt wording
from
the iecc which again is the
international energy conservation code
that supports national and climate goals
and so again with this resolution what
we did is we already took the 2018 which
we currently follow and just amended it
to add
that all electric portion
and so
you'll remember this slide from when we
presented on net zero
and
this is we're going to start to get into
the details of what we're proposing in
the resolution
and so the first thing is that we take a
holistic approach to designing our new
construction so it's this idea again
that we can slap as much solar as we
want on a building but if the building
itself the root of it is not approached
holistically we're not really maximizing
our renewable energy that we're adding
to the building and so again this is
just saying that we design
with keeping in mind optimize optimizing
the shape and orientation
using high efficiency mechanical systems
selecting efficient appliances and
electric electrifying those appliances
when available and then using a
high-performance envelope and one of the
second things in this resolution is also
including
water conservation technologies as well
um
and again keep in mind this is only for
city-owned facilities that are owned
subsidized or developed by the city
the other four changes not changes the
other four things included in this
resolution are that we
again which i went over is basically
what we're doing is taking the current
2018 iecc that we already follow and
just adding amendments to it
based on the 2021 version um so that's
that first bulletin point and then the
second one is that buildings greater
than 15 000 square feet which i would
just like to add is very big
meat
at least
minimum lead standard silver
and um
to clarify that
anything under that would just have to
follow the 2008 2018 iecc with the
amendments from the 2021 version that
we're proposing and then that
requirement stated in this resolution
shall be incorporated throughout the
selection process so when it goes out to
rfp for this building that we're keeping
all of these things in mind and telling
them that this is how
these are the standards for this
building and then building cost
estimates should consider available
rebates and tax credits and this is just
the idea that
we're capturing as much
incentives to get to cut the upfront
costs back
and i believe oh and then the city
passport the city's path forward so
once we bring this resolution forward
again in december 20th
we are going to
work in partnership with the senator's
office and new mexico state agencies and
msu and our community college and the
home builders association
to co-host a
conference
expo and workshop
that examines the many dimensions of the
energy transition and climate mitigation
and again this is the idea that we would
as we recognize one of the barriers to
this is this transition in terms of the
uncertainty and so we just want to make
sure that we're equipping staff and also
our building um community to help really
train them through this and get the
education that's needed along with this
and so that's really our path moving
forward and then we hope to bring back
the resolution
later on after we see how it goes to
become an ordinance and then even
further that out in terms of
taking it out to beyond
municipally owned buildings and again
this is just an opportunity for the city
to lead in this
we would be leading by example and um
would serve as
an opportunity then for the outside to
want to adopt it more easily
and i believe that that is yep that is
the final slide does anyone have any
questions for lisa and i
thanks jenny do you mind going back to
the chart that you showed um look like
the gas and electric and
why not do that you just pass it okay so
i'm gonna leave it at that and i'm gonna
see if any of my colleagues have any
questions and then if not i'll talk and
then they'll probably
so
help me understand this again so i know
the blue represent electricity emissions
the gold represents the natural gas
emissions
so
is that um
if we were to
and and i think that goal you were
talking about is in 2045.
so if if
if um we were to move in that direction
of slowly eliminating let's say take for
example natural gas
we would you're still projecting the
natural gas emissions will still be that
high even though we don't
have new construction with natural gas
so this is if we
this is business as usual so if we're
going the way that we're going today and
did it make any effort to change that
um
then yes it would increase
be just because the energy transition
act states that specifically for
electric it has to get cleaner the grid
has to be cleaner and so that's why
not naturally obviously but that's why
you see that the electric is getting
cleaner
um and so if we even didn't do anything
it would still get clean and that's why
it would help us transition
essentially what we're saying is that we
have the opportunity then to move this
style in 2045 to be sooner
so i guess if you were to read the tea
leaves the legislature went after you
know
the
electricity missions now they may also
want to
down the road
do the same with natural gas
yes possibly okay
anyone have any comments or i can still
keep talking okay so
all right so circling back that you're
talking about this resolution now this
is something here the staff has been
working on that pretty much takes into
account what has been discussed here on
on our diocese
and so
is it fair to say that
okay so i recognize the the
investment that the utility has done for
gas
and so my thinking is this
there's it's one thing to lay the ground
to lay the the infrastructure of the
pipes the other is to have it hooked up
so let's say let's take for example
uh let's take the the new
complex that has yet to that we're
working on on the east mesa
so i understand where they could
probably if they need to put the pipe
there but not hook up the gas meter and
hook up the actual gas so that so i
guess what i'm trying to say is is if
there was an emergency and the city
somehow needed access to gas the gas
line is there they just have to go in
there and tap into it and then hook it
up but if it's not hooked up
and it's and we have it our buildings
are 100 electricity we can run off
electricity and i guess what i'm trying
to say is it's just it's just to me
there would just be a little bit of
insurance so to speak but you're not
it's not hooked up it's just in the
ground does that make sense is that what
utilities is thinking of doing with some
other pipes do you know or are you not
aware of that i'm not aware of that but
i don't know if lisa has some input on
that
you almost made it the whole meeting
and i'm like going i hope i come up with
an answer um hello mayor and council
this is lisa i'm lisa lorock the
sustainability officer for the city
i
i know that these
i'm probably not
she called me up so
i'm answering but um
i think that the idea is that those
buildings wouldn't be hooked up the
concern that i
am reading into your question mayor is
that you're concerned if though if there
was a problem with electricity that we
wouldn't have a way to serve this
serve the building for example this
building
is all electric
and it has a heat pump uh which is
functioning a little too well
but we have a
a diesel backup generator here
or natural gas i'm not sure which is the
fuel type so there is the ability to
have a
backup system
down the road the backup systems that
are being looked at are battery storage
but that's a transition we are still
analyzing so there
so
whether it's hooked up or not
there is an ability to have a backup
system
okay and so i know ifo is not here he's
he's on off for the week and councilman
cuomo is on uh she can't make today's
meeting as well
but i guess it was i don't know was it
10 years ago that we had that freeze
remember when that freeze was and and i
mean it wasn't there was no sun that day
there was a very little sun so that
means it could hurt or solar
i guess i'd like to know a little bit
more about utilities plans as to if
they're going to do that i mean i'm i'm
okay with that as long as they don't
hook it up because what if what if we
did need to tap into the natural gas and
and
do whatever we need to do but but not
but you know just have it there
available if it's just under the ground
or not tapped i'm okay with that
the next question is i think jenny was
talking about any buildings that
subsidize
and i'm thinking of
habitat for humanity is that is that
fair to say that
when we donate the land if we give any
type of contribution we can require that
that be all electric
mayor
the idea of of that of the resolution
was to include
buildings with that we that we are
partnering with
or something like paseo verdes um lmi
that would have to be negotiated
obviously but that is the direction
we're supporting okay and then i think
you mentioned this in the one of the
pages that you showed
the new
construction on east the east mesa i
mean on across from mountain view
that obviously is something that's
planned by the city and so that would be
also all electric as well correct
okay and then so using that as an
example
i'm okay if there's at least gas lines
under but not tapped into because you
just once because once we go out there
it's it's you know it's good to at least
have them available it's kind of like
for example
you go to a lot of the intersections
right now like take north rise and
sonoma ranch
before they even put the when it was
being built there was already conduit
for a street light
just in the event that needed one and so
that's all i'm trying to get at but when
it was first constructed there was no
light because there was no need for it
but could you imagine if if we never had
built for that or planned for that and
then we needed to someday needed to tap
into that
it would have been a mess and that's all
i'm trying to get at is
is i'm okay if they at least put
the infrastructure out there
and but not tap into it and still run
all electric but in the event there was
that emergency that we needed something
to get to that gas that it's at least
there
that's my thought process
counselor flores thank you mr mayor and
thank you so much jenny and thank you
lisa for your great work
um but i too have that question that uh
mayor
mikashima had about the graph that even
though there's still be
ghg emissions
notwithstanding the energy transition
and that's because we'd have to do away
with all natural gas emissions for those
graphs to come down
or
because the gold is
or the orange
or am i misunderstanding that it the
graph doesn't make sense to me
yeah so this is we just wanted to show
like if this was the city not taking an
initiative this is the route that
greenhouse gases is going based on
electricity and natural gas
so
again this is us not doing anything as
it is
we are these are the greenhouses these
are this is the estimated greenhouse gas
emissions
okay so so so
so if we go
i mean some
wild miracle we would like within a few
years because today is 2021 almost 2022.
so
if we
got rid of all natural gas emissions
we would be
entirely
free yes by
correct so
yeah it's kind of pessimistic to look at
this graph i mean the way i read it the
way my brain works
so thank you for that
so lisa when you said that
to the mayor's question about the
buildings
to uh habitat for humanity and other
such you know
such
arrangements the city has
um you said i think your words were i
won't quote you but they were akin to
that's what we would expect
so
could we have
i think we would need to have language
that wouldn't leave any
anything open to interpretation
or going back and forth on um the
language of what the not only the intent
but to have language that reflects the
intent and and i always have a concern
about some of that stuff that we go back
to and we look at it and we go oh i
should have had a v8 and it's like oh
what were we thinking
so i i don't i just want to make sure
that
everything we have is
stated with the intent that
with words that reflects that intent and
i i totally agree with this program this
approach because we're super way behind
and i think you've been following uh cop
and we are so far behind that um
you know the manatees are not doing well
in florida and the polar bears are
floating on little pieces of
ice
so
we're you know we're pretty much doomed
quite frankly
um insofar as
well we are on the verge of being doomed
i would hope if we don't take
aggressive uh remedial steps because at
this at this point
it's almost just remedial and keeping it
from not being any worse than it is now
because it'll never go back to
i mean the process of the
greenhouse emissions have have done
their damage so i want to thank you
again lisa for your tenacity your
your um
your outlook
your wisdom in approaching this and
thank you janie for
for your input as well
thank you mr mayor
thank you councillor councillor vasquez
thank you
uh yes i do have some questions around
the resolution that's coming forward um
uh
so so
this is going to be a resolution right
not an ornament correct okay so this
will be guidance essentially to our
staff to be able to
um
to carry this this policy forward is
there a specific reason why this isn't
coming to us as an ordinance and a
resolution
so
we
wanted to
um
basically trial and error um
and also because there was some
hesitancy in terms of
um this is the first time we're doing
this and so we wanted to make sure that
we equipped staff and also the building
associations you know
our community
with the proper tools to succeed
versus just going at it with these are
what you have to do now without any kind
of
you know support with that
sure that makes sense thank you um
and then when it comes to for example
like an affordable housing project that
we would get
funding from the federal government from
hud or cdbg or any other source of money
that may come with its own stipulations
on what type of requirements we would
need as a city to build a development
out
how would this resolution or how would
our own requirements
potentially be resolved or conflict with
federal requirements for matching funds
for something like an affordable housing
project
that's a great question
[Music]
in my past work i did cdbg a lot
so
somewhat similar with the federal
stipulations and regulations but i would
say that again the international energy
conservation code is international right
so it's typically what's used to base
off of other things
and i don't think that it would impede
on anything i think that it would align
nicely
if i'm being honest the only concern
would be that
the all electric portion might not be
what
hud slash cdbg is their
um
it might that's not their minimum
requirement right so it might be a
little bit above that but with saying
that i don't think that it would impede
on any other federal regulations or
stipulations i know that cdbg focuses a
lot more so on
the who they're serving and that's where
the stipulations come in but not
necessarily on the building
and lisa would like to add something
thank you
mayor and counselor
one thing
to to build on
council vasquez's question
the idea of a resolution first of all
was because it was internal and we
wanted to introduce it
and encourage people to learn but
another strong bit of encouragement that
is appropriate for the lmi community
that we
want to build off of is that the
infrastructure and reconciliation
grants that will be coming out
all have a condition or a
portion on them called justice 40 40 of
the funds have to go to the lmi
community criteria has to show that they
have made an impact
so
all of these different
incentives rebate programs grant
programs are such that they are
that it would be
it would be fiscally irresponsible
not to follow these guidelines and these
grant opportunities
to be able to maximize what you could do
for these communities
so i think it'll come about
just by that okay thank you lisa an lmi
is low to moderate income isn't that
good okay
um
okay no that that sounds great i just
wouldn't want us to prohibit you know
getting federal funding if they're
if the federal government's not there
yet in terms of some of the matching
requirements that we would put in and
then we have our own
um
requirements for you know building
construction
that might conflict with with with what
the federal government wants us to do
are there any facilities that we imagine
building
that absolutely require
natural gas
in the future
where we might want to think about
excluding and
not that i want to i'm just i'm just
asking you know whether it's new
wells for you know the utilities
department or i don't know something
that that might require is that
something that staffs looked into in
terms of are are there any
functions of the city that we have to
continue to operate with natural gas
so we've had um we met with eric martin
and he shared his concerns with his from
his staff and there was some concerns
about the commercial kitchens in terms
of the gas stoves
and then
for heating our pools
um
we the technology is there to where
to your point um doesn't
require it
but
those were concerns that staff did share
and so
we are working on looking into
what the solutions would be for the
wording in that resolution but but yes
those are concerns that were raised
again they're not
it's not that we can't do it
it's just um
you know obviously those are some of the
concerns that were brought up and so
we're trying to
[Music]
come to an agreement slash provide
reassurance
that it wouldn't be an issue sure thank
you and were those concerns of cost
burden whether it's just increased cost
in in for example like an electric
heating pump for a olympic-sized
swimming pool versus yes absolutely
it's cost and also just they're
concerned that it won't
work as properly slash as quickly as
natural gas one of the examples they
gave me is like if you needed a sermon
certain temperature for one event and
then needed to either
raise the temperature of the pool to be
higher or lower that it couldn't do it
as quickly as natural gas would but
again we're looking into that research
to make sure that
it is or isn't
gotcha okay
um
well i fully support this ordinance i
think it's the right thing to do and or
this resolution coming forward i think
it's the right thing to do and i
appreciate that ability to kind of
perfect
uh and understand that troubleshoot the
kinks or the potential difficulties or
challenges um moving forward before it
gets codified into an ordinance and so i
think
i absolutely support that
i'm just thinking about all the projects
that are in development too
how how would this resolution affect
existing projects that are essentially
being that are in the design phase now
uh yes uh counselor that's a great
question and that also came up um
we
so it wouldn't be applicable to existing
current projects um
we're saying all new constructions that
hasn't gone to the planning
plan design planning phase yet
that's what would be and that wording is
in the resolution as well that it has to
be in the
design
planning implementation phase for it to
be considered new construction
terrific thank you and is there
is there a label for like these new
buildings that we're putting
you know the taxpayers are funding is
there is there a way to kind of you know
we have led certified buildings for all
kinds of different um
city properties there's different levels
is there anything we can
stick on these buildings to let the
public know that this is you know part
of an all-electric effort from the city
is that something we've thought about
councilman because we haven't thought
about that but i think that that's a
great idea and we can definitely look
into it i think that'd be great okay
thank you so much thank you mayor
thank you councillor david councillor
flotus
thank you mayor and thank you for the
presentation i wanted to
just check back in with one of the items
that you presented on hesitancy and how
to kind of combat that and that was
through
training
with the resolution are we going to see
any mention
of that as well
or is that going to be in a different
phase
uh
counselor stevie i'm sorry can you
repeat that last portion of it um will
training
be
something that we're also working on at
the same timeline or is it going to be
in a different phase no so we this is
happening congruently and we actually um
are trying to
um
nail down the dates for the um workshop
expo but no absolutely we want to make
sure that it is we give that support
in congruency with the training so that
they all align well we're uh tentatively
we're aiming for april for that
conference um but again we're still
trying to nail down the dates with the
um places we're thinking of having it
thank you i appreciate that and how has
been the response about the training
so
sorry i'm just
there's a there's a lot of things that i
wanted to answer at once um so the
training um we
the the response has been
well um
i was just thinking of that we want to
do
two two components to it so there's the
workshop component where we have classes
to you know actually train our staff in
the building community but then the expo
component is open to everyone so that
they can see the vendors out there and
you know get more information and things
of that nature but the workshop portion
is heavily focused on the technicalities
of it and making sure that the
peop that the people who are affected by
the resolution are getting the education
that they need and then the expo portion
is more for the community because again
this resolution is only for city
municipally constructed buildings and
not for residential
but we don't want to exclude them we
want to get them excited so that when
we're ready to take the ordinance
for residential
that you know they are already aware and
they know that it's coming
thank you i appreciate that and i
do appreciate having this as a
resolution until after we can do some of
those trainings in education so thank
you and thank you mayor
thank you councilor flores
thank you no i thank you for your
questions uh councillor uh abeeda stevie
thank you mr mayor
okay so i have a question and i may have
to call on carl
to to so let's use
the
casa de peregrinos i know there's been a
problem with it but let's just say it
was built and ready to go and it
has electricity and
gas
could we not carl have it to the point
where
we don't have to use the gas because
doesn't the gas meter have to isn't it
locked until it's been approved by the
city to unlock it
couldn't that stay locked and that's one
thing and so it forces that building if
that was the case to just go on
electricity only
that's all that you answer that question
then i've got a question for lisa on
third party agreements
thank you mayor uh carl clark deputy
director environmental technical support
with las cruces utilities
so mayor yes you're correct we can do
something like that and then in regards
to uh
your
request about having a gas line in place
for other places we do that with all the
hospitals where they
have a backup generator and usually they
run off of natural gas sometimes
actually natural gas and propane
in case the gas system can't get there
they have a propane tank sitting there
as well and
and that happened at one of the recent
uh
prompt carriers off of uh
i guess that's main street highway 70
right in that area that brand new and
they have both the propane and natural
gas system to run their backup generator
in case they lose power and have
patience there
so but yeah that's all possible
okay thanks
and so lisa what i want to thank you
paul well lisa what i was going to ask
is if we were to do something like that
and just run off electricity
i i guess i'm i was wondering
and maybe this is something you're gonna
bring it forward is why we're not
utilizing more third-party agreements
because i would think that when we do
that
the city doesn't have to really put out
too much money in fact hardly anything
it's it's the third party who's actually
doing all the infrastructure um and and
capturing the
the rebates and then we get to
through our savings be able to use that
to pay them
their their debt service and still have
less electrical costs so i guess what
i'm trying to say is if i was a sum it
up
is why can't we make some of our new
buildings even though
right now just still have it wired for
or
fixed up for gas or
the infrastructure there for gas
not use it
shift everything to electricity and then
when we have the third-party agreements
and we're using solar to run it then
we're paying less costs than we are if
we were to be utilizing gas i don't know
so i guess my question to you is
why we're not doing a whole lot of third
party agreements or does it still cost
the city money to do those as well
and if it does what what are the costs
mayor uh
uh
the
it's
i would
it's always more expensive to have a
third party
it is more expedient to have a third
party because they can go and do a lot
of things at once but you end up paying
more money for it
it's good to have a third party when
they have a technical expertise that we
don't have
in the case of new construction
moving
our staff to be able to end the
contractors that serve them to be able
to do
electrification in the buildings is a
skill set that will
it will be the foundation for all of our
new construction
and so i would
recommend
that
we
seize it
with its
importance
and
have staff and contractors learn how to
do the electrification if it was
something
unique and significant
then
i think a
energy performance contract which is
what i think you're referring to
is a great
strategy
but i think that it's that the the need
to electrify buildings to address the
climate change and its full
force is
is is very important and we're trying to
accelerate
that transition
so
although i think
it would be helpful to have the
technical expertise and i hope that we
are bringing it to to staff and
contractors
through the the different
conferences and workshops and expos
i would like
it to be i mean i think our goal is to
really
push people into this transition
all the time so help me
and help me clarify this if maybe i have
the third party agreement
structure wrong so let's just use city
hall for an example
let's say we pay a hundred thousand
dollars a month on our electric bill
and
acme company comes here and says we'll
put solar on this building
we're going to save you 50 000 a month
but from that savings you're going to
need to pay us 25 000 so we can pay off
the equipment
so
the bottom line is we're saving 25 000 a
month not the full 50 because but if we
bought it ourselves but we didn't have
to put out any money
the other company acme is getting all
these credits that the government is
giving which we don't can't get because
we don't file tax returns
so
why is it more expensive for us to or do
i have third party agreements the
structure wrong isn't that how it works
or no
mayor
you you have described it
correctly
i think
i think the point is is that you can
well there's two points one is
that
the rebates are something that we can
take advantage of now to cut the costs
and and the second one
is is that although we don't get the tax
credit
the the contractor could have a
relationship and get the tax credit
without it being an energy performance
contract
there are additional and
and then thirdly if we were to own it
from the get-go we would receive even
more benefits
than financial benefits than we would
with a contractor when we have an energy
performance contract we have to pay
monitoring and verification like for for
the johnson control operations that are
happening right now we have to pay forty
thousand dollars a year for that
and
we
have to also
wait
uh
for like 15 to 20 years
before we will actually have paid off
that loan
and so those are reasons
that
that and the rebates and
grant programs that are coming out right
now that are encouraging everyone to
make that transition
i'm just saying let's jump on the
bandwagon
for it i suppose that we could
go through a third party whether it was
a power purchase agreement
or an energy performance contract
but i i still think eventually
that staff is going to have to learn how
to do it and as are all the contractors
so i'm just
saying that it's not
a unique enough skill that they couldn't
pick it up
so
succinctly i think it's less expensive
and i think the skills are there and i
think the incentives are there for this
to be
an approach that we take on ourselves
i'm not saying that
for
a large building like this if we wanted
to go
platinum lead
hey let's see what we could do but i
i'm not sure it's necessary
yeah
i i didn't want to confuse the
energy agreement that you were talking
about with a third party agreement
because those are two different things
what johnson controls is is what you
were talking about we had to pay them to
look at all the buildings they think
that they could save us money and they
guarantee that we would that they would
save us and if they did they pay us a
difference the third party agreement
is totally separate i don't think we're
paying
energy
on that for i don't even know if we even
have any third party agreements with the
city with all the solar that we've put
we've had to buy it ourselves
actually we do have a third-party
agreement that's the power purchase
agreement that omaresco built
three megawatts of solar on the wells in
the airport
and okay so let's use that one for
example did we have we didn't have to
buy those panels did we
no sir no they bought it and then and
we're buying the energy from them right
and
and it's usually that energy is less
than what we were paying before because
it's being generated by solar
that's true
yeah and so that's that's the model i
thought that we should be doing and then
that's why it
you know although what's interesting is
if we were to do this with our city
buildings not only is it good for the
environment i.e
less greenhouse gases but it saves the
taxpayers money because we're paying
less on electricity
and and we're shifting it to a
third-party agreement who get can take
advantage of the of the rebates
i was under the impression we couldn't
take advantage of those rebates
but
why would we if we can save even 25 of
our electric costs and still have solar
and then think about the money we'll
save from not having to pay
on natural gas as well but
as i mentioned i think it's important
that it still be available because of an
emergency i mean
you know if all it meant was the city
comes and unlocks the gas then and get
it going great
but
you know it shouldn't be unlocked unless
it was an emergency and that's what i'm
trying to get it i i think that that was
something that i think that we should
probably really look at and i would hope
that that resolution would really
address
because i see i see some
possibilities here that we can really
accelerate our savings to the to the
taxpayer to the city both you know one
in the same
and and still
achieve what we're trying to achieve
here
but for some reason i just don't quite
feel that it's uh that this future
resolution
addresses
what we would i would what i think
council would like to see and that is
slow elimination of
of
greenhouse gases
still recognizing the investment that
the utilities has put in but at the same
time
you know the event of emergency have
access to it
and and really utilize a green
third-party agreements in in municipal
owned buildings because we'll save money
on electric costs
mayor
i
i believe this is
actually helping to achieve what you're
describing because we're electrifying
all of them we're electrifying all new
municipal buildings and as a consequence
either through additional solar
community solar or just the
attrition of of gas from
uh
gas
greenhouse gas emissions from el paso
electric
we will be using we will be emitting
less greenhouse gases
so
the our the the goal of this resolution
is to be able to
choose a source of energy
that has the potential of producing zero
greenhouse gases
electricity can do that
and so whether we just
waited out for el paso electric we put
on solar ourselves or a portion of solar
or
we
subscribe to community solar
those are all
options for us to go
greenhouse gas
free
zero emissions so this is this
resolution
is about making
a building
potentially greenhouse gas
free because it's all electric
and electricity will ultimately
can ultimately be delivered
through renewable energy
i don't know if we're making things
worse or better for you
sorry we're okay
okay so
uh mayor pro-tem thank you mayor thank
you lisa and jimmy i appreciate the
presentation so
i've been always clear this is not my
expertise
so
when you present there there are
concepts in here that are are difficult
to grasp and i like so you're gonna have
to help me and probably others here
with the exception of maybe a couple of
i mean i'm not going to say that
whatever but
please come up with
a binder
that has
all these concepts the you have
iecc like those are things i don't know
and it makes it very difficult for me to
understand it and try to make sense of
it and and
put policies in place that are going to
be helpful so something like this would
be
for me
helpful um definitions
um you know what we're trying to do here
why we're trying to do it
um i like the idea of this conference i
think that's an important piece to it
and i think we should do
small focus groups or small
a series of engagements right for for
people
like me
when you're now going to start trying to
get enthusiasm from your residents right
to move into complete electric
i think those things are important if we
don't do that and so um
i appreciate everything that you've done
it i'm always in awe of both of you when
you come up here because it's something
i'd really love to learn more of and i
try to
but there's things in here that i don't
understand and i want to understand it
and i think i i'm left behind here a
little bit so i don't like feeling that
way and i'm sure that's not your intent
it's me because i don't
that's not my expertise but i figure
there's a lot of people here that feel
the same way
um not only on the dice but in the in
the community so
um something like that would be helpful
for me
the other question is
um
let's see
you may mention a little bit of the
water conservation piece
and i think
i don't remember what slide it was
so it is going to be the second
it's the second point in the resolution
and it states any city owned facility
that is owned subsidized or developed by
the city and uses water and or energy is
included in this program okay so that's
where the water conservation piece is
okay
so maybe talking in in this binder of
sorts that i'm asking for you to produce
a little more about what that means and
for me i'm concerned
with utilities sort of moving into being
an energy right
utility
what does that look like and
what kind of conversations are we having
with them
um about that and i think those are all
really important things that we need to
um i'm for the resolution i think we
should start with this first rather than
it becoming like you said as an
ordinance
we have a lot of educating i think to do
internally but i'm i'm also concerned
about our utility and you know where
their thoughts are i know they're
talking about hiring consultants and
moving into that
into being
carbon free and you know all all those
things but
what are those conversations like
as you're
developing this and are they at the
table when you're when you're having
these conversations yeah counselor
candidate just to clarify um yes we have
we were actually working with rhonda
diaz and
it's um in the resolution the water
conservation piece is known as i think
it's exhibit it's exhibit a
and it it is go it is
directly um
from
a plan that rhonda diaz has
looked over slash helped
put together with our expert
kat mortimer from pax she's a water
energy
conservation consultant and so yes ronda
has been um
she's been in the conversation and just
to be clear these are
exhibit a is not
um
it's not for zero carbon development
we're just adding water conservation
components to it and so it's just like
standards like irrigation
standards
and water metering standards it's it's
absolutely not that we're asking
utilities
water specifically to be zero carbon no
it's just um components of water
conservation that we're adding to the
resolution
which
you know just to clarify that they have
been um
vetted through them okay cool but
absolutely when we bring the resolution
forward you'll see those specifics
exactly what we're asking for okay all
right thank you so much i appreciate it
thank you mayor
thank you councillor
stork you mr mayor uh thank you all for
for your presentation um
yes a lot of good information here um
and we need to understand it it's true
um
good questions by the council here and
every and everything i
i um
we as you know we need a path
to
a clean energy future
um the state has already done that with
their um energy act that they passed a
couple years ago
and so
this is just part of that path that we
go
i simply look at it this way
you have a building and there's going to
be differences in different buildings of
course
and they'll have to be adjustments but
you have a building that's just all
electric run
it's heated by electricity it is
water is heated by electricity and and
any cooking is done by electricity
uh instead of gas
and um
there's there are new technologies out
that most of us here in this room i
don't think knows
and these technologies are very energy
efficiency with of using electricity
high efficiency so i was wondering we
talked about having a consultant
help with this transition is that still
part of this are we just talking about
the utilities
uh transforming transmis
transforming to uh
electricity from
natural gas
or reducing our natural gas in the
future
counselor sorg i believe that's for
utilities but i'll at least jump in if
i'm incorrect
mayor councillor sword
this is lisa lorac again for the record
uh
there
there is a specific resolution for
uh
utilities to
develop an uh
energy transition act that that
talks about how
that's specifically for them
our
the domain of our responsibility is to
to implement the climate action plan and
towards this
we're looking at strategies like
building electrification
electric vehicles and other strategies
like that to
to deal with how the city
and
this the community at large
makes this transition how utilities does
it as a separate okay thank you
yes
and mr mayor if um
you're talking about having
power purchase agreements uh for
solar that surely would fit this whole
plan here uh any new building we have we
could put ppps on use ppps rather for
our city buildings for sure
and and of course if we have solar on
our buildings
and enough of it
we could say that our building is not
even using electricity from
our our el paso electric or you
regenerating it all ourselves
um that may not be able to be done but
it's it's it's what
is what would would where it would be
so um yeah the best thing to do is to
have
solar on all of our new buildings
but if not if not over time
the amount of carbon dioxide carbon
greenhouse grass is that are going to be
emitted from the electricity we use
is going to go down as
they
abide by the
state
law
in fact i don't know if it's well known
but
in this time of year el paso electric is
almost
uh are very close to 60 percent
greenhouse gas free
because they get the vast majority of
their electricity from palo alto
or palo verde rather
where the
it's a nuclear facility
together with a little solar and wind
they also
tap into and in other
places around the area so
that's the idea is to go
all electric and then as time goes on
we'll be greenhouse gas free
by 2045
whether we generate the eclipse
electricity ourselves or if the we get
it from
our ious
so
proceed
you bring us that resolution and we'll
get her done thank you mr mayor
thank you counselor anyone else
some are members of the public
kevin is that you
did you want to say something
okay
um i just need you to wait to get here
and then state your name and we're good
to go kevin wilson representing housing
and neighborhood services for natalie
green today can you lift the microphone
up a little bit please
um natalie wanted me to come in and and
and listen to the
the
presentation
and wanted me to uh please express that
that we need to take into consideration
our third party partners that we have in
the nonprofit sector for single-family
residences in particular tierra del sol
and habitat for humanity these changes
could be
devastating to the programs that they're
running right now that are very
instrumental in the increasing of
affordable housing not that we don't
want to move forward with an idea of
full sustainability and and carbon free
footprint but that we would like to have
extensive consultation with our partners
prior to these changes being
instrumental in the way they do their
operations
but just wanted to bring that up as we
write the resolution
that that is taken into consideration
that's it
so let me send kevin i know you were
um in the real estate business before
and maybe even the construction
do
do on a new construction of a home
i know in the past banks were a little
reluctant to
to lend money on a house that has
solar on it have they changed their
their ways and are they doing that are
they including that as
part of the building now
there are certain banks participating in
in programs there's a local bank doing
it no names mentioned but
nationally it has not caught on with the
very large banks that are providing a
substantial amount of the funding for
single-family housing throughout any
community but
on a local level we do have banks who
are recognizing the benefits
increasing people's purchasing abilities
and realizing that they have lower
utility costs with with solar additions
to the homes
the the building process
has been has been upped
up their game substantially with the new
mexico energy conservation code
which all builders are complying with at
this point in time but it hasn't
eliminated the use of electricity so
banks will loan
loan larger amounts to to borrowers
knowing that there's going to be solar
you just have to find the right lending
institution to do so
the reason why i say that is i wonder if
you if community development has ever
done
or the department that that
natalie natalie is in has ever done an
exercise to show let's say you have a
thousand dollars that you you're using
for
your house your payment utilities the
city a possible ledger
let's say 600 200 and 200 total a
thousand
but
but now what you do is is let's say that
the cost because of solar let's say it
made it to 800 a month that includes the
house payment but your utility is only
200. so you're not spending anything
more
you're spending the same amount
but you're getting basically free
electricity so has do you know if your
colleagues have done any type of a
financial exercise such as that to see
to show that really the costs are about
the same it's just shifting it by adding
solar to it
uh mayor city council not that i'm aware
of at this point in time with regards to
the calculations of the savings from
from more efficient building systems and
particular solar system solar
photovoltaic
systems we have not okay i'm just
curious but it would be a good exercise
for us to look at all right thank you
thank you any further questions for me
before i
thank you
mayor this is lisa larocque again i just
wanted to say that
jenny hernandez has gone through that
exercise with the rebates for all
electric for lmi buildings and has found
the payback to be less than three years
for everything so
we are interested in in moving this
forward so we have done the work to make
sure that what we're promoting is
something that is financially feasible
okay great
so the payback for the solar system
would be three years is that what you're
saying no no sir i'm
speaking about electrification and all
the upgrades to the building so it will
be resilient enough to be able to handle
extreme weather events by providing
appropriate air
air conditioning through
heat pumps and through heating the
building okay
okay no further questions from council
so we'll just look forward to your
resolution i presume
okay i guess that's it anyone else in
the audience
okay there's nothing further entertain a
motion to adjourn
so move
second okay motion made by councillor
vasquez seconded by councillor flores
christine this is on the motion to
adjourn the work session counselor beta
stevie yes
councilor vasquez yes cancer ben como is
absent cancer sorek
yes
cancer flores yes councillor gandara yes
mayor yes okay it's 2 14 p.m
we are adjourned and for those of you
who have a happy holiday happy
thanksgiving and we'll see you
the following week
two weeks
okay bye now
you