You're live.
Good afternoon. Welcome to our city
council work session. Today is Monday,
April 13, 2026. It's approximately 1
p.m. I'm Mayor Eric Henriquez. We will
start with a moment of silence for the
brave men and women of the United States
Armed Forces and also for our Los Cusus
Police and Los Cusus Fire Department
that keep our city safe 247 365.
If you please join me in the pledge. I
pledge allegiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the
republic for which it stands, one nation
under God, indivisible, with liberty and
justice for all.
Here
we go.
First thing on the agenda is to read the
closed meeting statement. The city of
Los Cruus Council met in close session
today, April 13, 2026. The meeting
started at 10:04 a.m. The following were
attendance.
Mayor Enriquez, Mayor Prom Munoz,
Councelor Bencomo, Councelor Karan,
Councelor Harris,
City Manager Econo Paya, City Attorney
Brad Douglas, Henry Becker, Christine
Rietta, our city clerk, Kyle Adran,
Joe Richards, Jose Vargas from HR, uh,
police, Lieutenant Cody Austin, Housing,
Natalie Green,
Um, from parks and w, Katherine Harris
Rogers from public works, Jimmy Moreno
from land management, Bill Ham economic
development, Elizabeth Teters, Jan
Lernbuck from uh, housing as well from
parks and rec. Steve Bingaman and
assistant city manager uh, David
Sidillo. outside council Chris
Defilippo.
We met and we had these items. The
discussion bargaining strategy
preliminary for the collective
bargaining negotiations between the
policymaking body and the bargaining
unit which is closed pursuant to New
Mexico state statute 1978 section
1015-1H5.
We also discussed pending litigation
regarding Brandon Baron versus the city
of Los Cusus which is closed pursuant to
NMSA 1978 section 1015-187.
We also discuss items brought by
housing, parks and recreation and public
works for the per purchase, acquisition
or disposal of real property or water
rights by the public body which is
closed pursuant to NMSA1 1978 section
1015-1H8.
We also discussed a pending or
threatening litigation regarding 828
Productions LLC versus City of Los
Cusus. also closed pursuant to NMSA1978
section 10-15-1H7.
We also discussed the city of Los
Cruuses versus Alama Land Investment
Corporation which is closed pursuant to
NMSA1 1978 10-15-187.
The meeting adjourned at 12:00 pm.
So now we can begin with the work
session. Uh the agenda items 2.1. The
first one is municipal court update. We
have judge Anthony Flossa.
Good afternoon, mayor, honorable members
of the city council, Anthony Felos,
Municipal Court Judge One, uh for the
Los Cruus Municipal Court. Thank you for
the invite to be here. I was asked to
come in and give an update on the
municipal court, um the staffing of the
municipal court, and some identified
needs of the municipal court. So, I
appreciate um the opportunity to present
um to council regarding those issues.
Um I just wanted I know the council
knows this, but I want to give uh a
little overview of the municipal court
uh for members of the public. Municipal
Court uh Las Cruz Municipal Court, we're
currently at 135 East Griggs. We have
two uh full-time municipal judges.
Excuse me. We're a court of limited
jurisdiction in New Mexico. What that
means is we can only hear certain types
of cases in the municipal in the Los
Cruus municipal courts. Um, we're
limited in that we only hear alleged
violations of the Los Cusus Municipal
Code. Uh, we're governed by the rules
I'm sorry I didn't uh rules of the New
Mexico Supreme Court rule set 8, which
is the municipal court rules of
procedure. Uh, municipal court's not a
court of record. None of the proceedings
are are audio recorded. We don't handle
jury trials. They're all bench trials in
all cases. Um if requested can be
appealed to the third judicial district
court day novo, which means all over
again someone's entitled to a new trial
in front of a district court judge. Uh
for the most part, we uh handle these
types of cases. Petty misdemeanor, DWI,
traffic, animal control, and codes. Um,
petty misdemeanors are are uh primarily
housed within chapter 19 of the
municipal code. Um, those are batteries,
assaults, resisting, evading or
obstructing an officer, shoplifting,
criminal trespass, lararseny,
harassment, criminal damage to property,
all petty misdemeanors uh under your
municipal code. Uh we also uh have
jurisdiction per uh ordinance to handle
DWI offenses, first, second, and third
offenses. Uh, most of the petty
misdemeanors carry a maximum sentence of
up to 90 days of jail and and up to a
$500 fine. The DWIs are the only
exception to that. On second and third
offenses, they carry a maximum uh
exposure of 179 days um in jail.
Traffic, uh, we handle traffic. Those
are contained within your municipal
code. Chapter 27, uh, animal, uh,
control cases, uh, chapter 7, the the
updated animal ordinance that you all
recently passed. Those are are cases
that we hear and we also hear codes
cases. Um, so that's just a little
overview of the municipal court.
Wanted to touch on the move to city hall
for court operations uh, from June 2025
to March of 2026. Um, as you all are
aware, we we uh operated or we had
substantial issues with the HVAC system.
Some other issues at the municipal court
uh building and we uh in conjunction
with conversations with city management,
the decision was made to move um us to
city hall and we did that uh we were
here from approx middle to late June uh
to March of of 20 uh 26. We just moved
back last month.
We uh operated several places within
city hall. We had the uh second floor
conference rooms. We were uh I think
it's 2007 A, B, and C. Those were uh
made into two courtrooms and clerk area
where our clerks worked. Uh we also um
had the computer lab on the second
floor. That's where our records uh
department was. And then we also um
madame clerk uh offered her conference
room in in the city clerk's office and
that's where our compliance uh
department was housed and we also uh
occupied a portion of the community
development front desk where um folks
were that was essentially our reception
area where cases were processed. Um that
was operational due to the uh dedicated
public servants at the municipal court.
Uh that was not an ideal situation um to
move uh to city hall, but um I give all
the credit and I'm I'm very fortunate to
work with uh 18 individuals over there
at the municipal court um that made that
happen. We had clerks working out of
banker boxes. We had records staff back
and forth to the courthouse to get
records if they were needed for a
particular day. Um so all credit goes to
to the municipal court staff to make
that operational. And as I'll get into,
we didn't get really a cut in and the
amount of work that we got. Our our case
numbers went up and and it was a
testament to the dedication of of the
staff at the municipal court.
Wanted to touch on the public access
website that uh we recently were able to
go live with uh last year. U this was a
and I'm excited to have this available
to the public. Um, you can access this
website through the Las Cruis's
Municipal Court web page.
This allows the public to search cases
for individuals to find out their court
dates and also uh see what what cases
are being heard by a particular judge um
that day. Um, when I was an attorney
practicing in the area, one of my big
knocks on the municipal court was you
couldn't really uh have any sort of
online capabilities to to see what was
happening um in the municipal court. and
we were able to get this uh up and
running last year. Uh there was a huge
project that had to uh be completed
before we could make this available. As
you all may recall, when uh cannabis was
uh legalized in the state of New Mexico,
there was also some corresponding
legislation that dealt with uh
expungement of cannabis cases. And um
the staff, again, testament to the
staff, we had to review the staff, and
this started before my time in the
municipal court, but there had to be 11
over 11,000 cases um that were um
identified, uh reviewed to determine
whether or not they were eligible for
expungement pursuant to the state
statute reviewed. And nothing like this
had ever, uh come up before. So, we had
to develop a process to expune those
cases. So, this couldn't go live until
uh we were able to um get that project
um completed. So, we're we're pretty
excited about this uh to have this
capability in the municipal court. It
enhances our our service to the
community and our our transparency to
the public. Uh so, I just put a couple
slides uh relating to that. That's the
search and then um this is how you uh
determine or check dockets for each uh
judge for the particular day.
wanted to touch on our case numbers and
u I just wanted to this slide is to show
the current demand and uh usage of the
municipal court. This is not to show
that these types of violations are
happening more or less in the community.
I have no idea if that is the case or
not. It's not appropriate for me to talk
um as to that. A lot of these types of
cases can uh be cited or charged under
corresponding state statutes um in the
mag the the Doniana County magistrate
court. So um this is just shows the
current demand um that we have um in the
municipal court. A lot of our time most
of our time as judges um is spent in the
the petty misdemeanor and the DWI um
cases. Those are the ones that um oftent
times on most of the time on the petty
misdemeanor cases um have attorneys
involved. Uh
almost 100% of the time, pretty much
100% of the time on the DWI cases um
there are attorneys involved. So this is
where a lot of our staff time, a lot of
our uh the court time um is being is
being taken up currently.
And all these cases uh under New Mexico
law have to uh be brought to trial
within six months from the date of
arraignment. So um we're constantly um
setting these cases uh for trial within
the the timeline um for the case to go
to trial. Um DWIs um are more complex.
Uh they're technical in nature. Um
oftent times um a lot of well there is
collateral consequences associated with
with DWI cases. So, um, they take a lot
of time and they're they're pretty
complex in in some circumstances. So,
the court sets these for half-day
trials. Every single one of these has a
half-day trial generally dedicated uh a
judge's uh time is dedicated to. So, uh
I'd like to just point out as to the
usage from from 2023 to to 2025, you can
see we had almost a well a 61% increase
in those types of cases. Um and then and
the the DWI cases a two and a half time
and essentially we're already at um in
2026 the amount of DWIs filed for the
whole year in the municipal court in in
in 2023. So uh we are extremely busy uh
currently we have um there is a high
usage high demand on the municipal
court.
Wanted to highlight a couple things that
have happened in the municipal court
since 2024. Um, we've increased the
capacity and ability to handle walk-in
court appearances. Uh, we do that four
times a week. Uh, folks can come in um
and appear uh in the mornings uh four
times a week um all the time. So, we
don't know who's coming in each
particular day. This morning when I I
had them, I think we had about 16 or 17
individuals that walk in um and we
process those cases um and and get them
in front of uh the court.
And so this is just to increase the
accessibility of the public to to the
municipal court. We've also expanded
capacity uh for remote court
appearances.
These are tech uh generally on traffic
uh citations where we allow um
telephonic uh appearances. So if
someone's not able to make it during our
walk-in session, uh we allow them to uh
appear remotely. We also uh all traffic
hearings are predominantly handled uh
remotely. So, uh, the that's a benefit
to the officer and and the individual.
They're allowed to appear remotely in
and all those cases um are are processed
and heard that way. We've also um in an
effort to reduce uh failures to appear,
uh we we provide notice to individuals
at the time the hearing is set. So that
that's very important and that's another
demand I've asked of the staff. When
someone comes into court and their case
is they're arraigned on the particular
case and then it's set for a pre-trial,
we give them their notice uh right then
and there so they know exactly when they
need to be back and an effort to to um
reduce uh failure to appears um in
court. Also,
um this is becoming more uh common
facilitation of court hearings for
individuals that are engaged in
treatment or other community based
services. Uh we don't want to disrupt
that. As far as the municipal court, if
those uh folks uh contact the court,
their case workers or case managers uh
contact the court. We facilitate to
allow either an extension for a time to
for them to appear or allow them um to
appear uh remotely. um so we don't um
you know disturb positive progress that
they're making. Um this is a another
side or another part of the uh service
to the community that we uh provide. We
did 189 weddings um in 2025.
Um this is a positive experience with
the community that the court has uh with
the public. It's also I believe it's
positive uh interaction with the public
uh for city government. A lot of these
weddings were done here in in city hall
and we uh there's folks taking pictures
outside in in city hall after their
ceremony and when we're at the
courthouse they flow into uh Plaza de
los Cusus and and take photos. This was
I'll give credit to Judge Daset. Um he
when he came and was appointed he had
the idea of expanding um expanding
capacity to do weddings. I didn't know
if there was the demand or not, but
there's clearly the demand for the
community and that's a that's a service
that we're lucky and we're happy to
provide uh to the community.
Want to talk a little bit about our
compliance program SOS and uh
alternative sentencing options. Uh when
I was appointed when this body appointed
me to the municipal court in 2023,
uh we had limited options as as far as
uh compliance. There wasn't there once
was a compliance department. um at the
municipal court it had uh
it didn't have that many options when I
was uh appointed to the municipal court.
We essentially had either the option of
uh sentencing someone to a period of
incarceration or um you could order
something but there was no real uh
opportunity to follow up with that
ensure in compliance with the court. Um,
so this body has supported the the court
the last couple years and I uh,
councelor Ben Como and Marinas, I know
you spearheaded the the support um, of
the municipal court. In 2024, we were
given a case manager position. Uh, we
also internally staffed our mun uh, our
compliance department with two other
positions. Uh, we really got this up and
going in 2025. And it's still not
perfect. It's we've got room for growth
and and further development, but we
essentially stood this up from from the
ground up um in the municipal court. So,
we when appropriate, this isn't
appropriate in every single case and
every case is different, but when
appropriate, now we have the ability to
make referrals to outpatient and
inpatient treatment. Uh we also uh can
refer folks through uh to treatment
court programs uh through the magistrate
court or the district court. Uh we also
have through the case manager um the
ability to connect people through to
through to resources through the comm
case manager. Also since 2024
um we also have the ability we've set up
a pre-trial conditions of release
compliance. Um, if a judge feels uh like
we want a little heightened release
conditions on on an individual or they
have a history of of uh failing to
appear, uh we can uh allow them to uh or
order them to uh appear in court uh and
check in with our compliance folks. So,
uh we ensure compliance with conditions
of release and ensure their appearance
in court. We've also set up a
postconviction probation and supervision
on non-DWI cases. uh this and I say
non-DWI cases. Currently, there's a
memorandum of understanding in effect
with the city and the county uh for
supervision of the DWI cases. The Donian
County Misdemeanor Compliance Office is
pretty uh well suited to handle the DWI
cases and so um all folks uh that are
ordered to supervision term out of out
of DWI cases are supervised by the
Donana County Misdemeanor Compliance. Uh
we also have electronic monitoring which
again allows us um the ability to do
this allows us um alternative sentencing
options and also heightened level
conditions of release. In addition uh
since 2024 we've uh stood up a a
defensive driving program where we can
order uh individuals to complete
defensive driving uh community service
or other uh types of classes.
These are our numbers uh from 2025 of
the compliance. Uh Judge Daset and I we
have to remain fair and impartial and
neutral. So we don't get really involved
in in um the supervision of individuals
because they may come before the court
uh on a non-compliance hearing. Uh so
court manager Don Schultz who's sitting
to my right, she uh handles the
supervision of this uh of the compliance
uh department. Uh but these are the
numbers uh that
uh occurred in 2025 and not everyone
complied. Uh some some folks failed on
on these conditions. We've had some be
successful. Uh but the main goal of our
compliance department is uh to get their
case resolved. Most of the time this is
this is postconviction,
ensure compliance with the court orders
and and hopefully uh work with them to
to get them out of the court system.
Um, also wanted to to point out and I
put this case diver uh cases diverted
from municipal court through informal
agreements between resolutions between
the prosecution and the defense. Um, as
you the council likely knows, the city
attorney's office has taken a much more
active uh role in the prosecution of
cases in the municipal court. And this
is becoming more and more a part of the
court where uh individuals who may not
have that much history or or uh
firsttime offenses um they're
essentially working with the city
attorney's office, their attorney and
and the city attorney's office to uh
enter into informal resolutions which
I'm not aware of the conditions uh but
they generally result in if those
conditions are met uh the case being
dismissed in the municipal court. So, I
would like to point out that that that's
uh currently happening in in the
municipal court.
Uh staffing, we currently have two uh
full-time municipal judges. We're the
only uh municipal court in the state
that has two full-time judges. Uh we
have 18 current employees uh and three
court clerk vacancies that these are all
recently vacant. We're trying to work uh
expeditiously to get those filled. and a
court compliance assistant. Uh which
were working with HR. U this was a
position that we tried to fill um but
based off the education and the uh
experience requirements we were unable
to fill it uh at the compensation level.
So we're working with HR to try and get
that position filled as well.
and I was asked to uh come talk or
identify some needs of the municipal
court, you know, short-term and and
long-term facility solutions. Um,
obviously, uh, short-term, we're back in
the in the courthouse. We'd like to stay
there, uh, through the summer. Uh we're
working uh pretty closely with
facilities and public works to make sure
any issues that are uh pop up currently
are are being addressed and uh we're
able to stay in the in the building and
facilities and and public works have
have been great um in doing that.
Long-term facility solution. I know that
this is probably a tougher conversation
to have um more expensive conversation
to have, but if I'm able to assist in in
any way, I'm I'm happy to do that. uh
increased demand on staff and supplies.
This is reflected uh the increase of of
supplies is is reflected in our current
uh budget request. We're working um very
quickly to get those vacancies filled
which are much needed. But uh the more
cases being filed in the municipal court
uh with more attorneys being involved uh
that increases pleadings and papers
being filed into the court. Each
pleading um requires staff to to process
that that pleading um get it docketed in
our system, scanned into our system. So,
we've we've seen an increase not only
with the the case number increase, but
also the more uh active role of the city
attorney's office. They file a lot more
pleadings and we're um trying we we keep
up with that demand. uh indigent
attorney and public defender.
I know this is a conversation that's uh
been going on for a a couple years. Um
this is currently housed the indigenous
attorney fund is are currently housed in
the municipal court budget. That's a
variable our biggest variable uh expense
in the municipal court budget. And we
currently have two attorneys that are
taking cases um in the municipal court.
Only one um that takes uh DWI cases. We
had four when I started and two of those
also two of those attorneys had um
federal practice and their federal
practice uh became much more uh busy and
involved and they they stopped taking
municipal court cases. So, um it it's
currently working how it how it is now,
but um and I know that there's been
conversations uh about potentially
moving this uh from the municipal court
budget. I support that idea. Um but I
don't know where it currently stands and
um and if I um but we would like to see
it uh kind of get resolved that
particular issue um because it's vital
that if the city is going to prosecute
the amount of cases that they are in the
municipal court uh that we make sure
that the the constitutionally required
adequate representation is is also uh
maintained and and u maintained
throughout the process. Um I put in here
lang compensation of language access
specialists
under the the rules of procedure
court employees um who are certified
through the administrative office of the
courts. Um they they take u a
certification, they take a test, they
have uh continuing uh education
requirements, and they're able to uh
provide interpretation services uh to to
the court, actual court proceedings in
in limited types of cases, mainly uh
traffic cases. So when we're doing the
walk-in court uh arrangements, we don't
know who's coming in. Um, it saves the
and and these employees of the court are
allowed to um interpret under our rules
and it saves the court time. It saves
the it makes the court more efficient.
It saves the court money in our budget
uh for not having to to pay for an
interpreter. And currently they don't
get compensated any extra for that for
that certification that they have that
they maintain and um help the court
with. So, um that is a need I I've
identified I I believe other uh
municipalities uh pay those folks extra
for getting that certification. Believe
the state uh pays uh employees extra for
having that type of certification. And I
think I would I would ask the uh the
council if that's something um you're
interested in in doing, we would I would
recommend that because I think it it is
a good service uh that these folks uh
provide and there's really no incentive
for them to get the uh certification
currently. Updated vehicle. I believe
that this is currently in our budget
requests. We currently have a over a
20-year-old vehicle that is becoming
less and less reliable. um and we use
that vehicle on a daily basis um back
and forth to the detention center um and
the police department to get filings um
in the municipal court. So um I believe
and I believe that's currently in in in
our budget request. We would ask if if
you could support that. That's pretty
important to the municipal court. This
isn't a um
act uh specific budget request. uh we
have but updated technology and
courtrooms that's something we're going
to try and handle internally with our
budget. Um, one of the good things
outside the air conditioner here in city
hall uh when we came here was uh the
technology in the conference rooms and
um now uh with more and more uh videos,
body camera, law enforcement body camera
videos being presented um in in cases
and um surveillance video type uh
evidence being pres uh presented in
cases. um we realize we we need uh to
update the technology in our courtrooms
so it's uh better for uh case
participants and litigants for
presenting their cases and also
attorneys. So um that's just a need that
we have. We're going to try and handle
that internally with our budget. Also,
final thing, uh this isn't really a
need. Uh but I I wanted to alert the the
council, we currently don't have any
alternate judge um under uh section
17-34
C. We did have one
um and he uh tendered his resignation a
couple months ago indicating he had his
eye towards retirement from the legal uh
profession. Um Judge Dasa and I take the
positions very seriously. We're we're
there all the time. Um the only really
uh need for the alternative judge is uh
certain cases when we both have to go to
the mandatory municipal judge
conference. uh so we wouldn't disrupt
the the service to the public if Judge
Jeraset and I both need to recuse uh
under the rules of uh or the code of
judicial conduct. Um that would really
be the the only reason why but but I
would just want I and I don't really
identify it as a need but I just wanted
to alert the council um to that that um
if you were interested in appointing an
altered judge um we currently don't have
one.
And with that I'll stand for questions.
All
right. Thank you, Judge. I appreciate
it. Uh, anyone for any questions? Uh,
councelor Krin,
I just wanted to thank you for sending
along all the data that you you all sent
last week. Thank you for that. And then
I I do I didn't completely understand
the public defender question or the your
your what you said about public
defender. You said you support it
leaving the budget and going to the city
attorney's office, I'm guessing, or I
can you talk a little bit more about
what you meant when you said that?
Sure. It's currently under our budget
and I think it's been there for a long
time. Um,
it's variable in that we don't know how
many cases are going to be filed. We
don't know how many folks are going to
request an attorney. We don't know how
many folks are going to be determined to
be indigent uh that
get an appointed attorney um that we
have. So, it's hard for us to budget. I
just personally feel it shouldn't be the
court's responsibility to make sure um
that we have
recruit uh defense attorneys to to take
the cases in the municipal court um and
worry about budgeting or moving things
around um based off the need of the of
the the indigent council. So I would
support moving it away from the
municipal court budget and house
somewhere else within the city budget.
That's just my request.
And councelor Karen, uh Brad, our city
attorney would uh like to add to that.
Thank you, Mayor Councelor Corin. Uh
currently, it's my understanding, uh the
the agreement for a full-time public
defender will come before the governing
body in June. Uh, I would I wouldn't
necessarily have a problem with it.
Well, I would have a problem with it
being housed in the city attorney's
office because I don't want there to be
that perceived conflict of interest. And
so, our city clerk has graciously
offered to house that agreement within
her department. So, that's where that
one and any subsequent agreements will
reside.
Thank you. And then they would be kind
of an independent operator, I
understand. So the independent of
municipal court hierarchy and the
prosecuting hierarchy that the city
attorney's office is. Okay. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you Brad. Um council com.
Thank you. Thank you so much judge. It's
good to see you again. Uh you as well.
Um just just to follow up on this. So
right now you do have a budget and you
out of that you pay pri these private
attorneys who sort of take on this role.
Is that correct,
Mayor Counselor Ben Como? That's
correct.
Okay, thank you for that. Um, yes. We
were sort of over here whispering like
it it would make no sense for this
person to be under Brad's office. I
think that'd be pretty big conflict of
interest. So, thank you so much, city
clerk. This is why you're the best city
clerk of the state. Um, no, in all
seriousness, thank you. I I think that's
really important and I hope that that
works with um I'm glad you're speaking
and and saying like this is this is what
makes the most sense. Um, last year,
late last year, councelor Corn and I
worked on updating our welcoming city
resolution. And I learned a lot through
that process, working with the city
attorney's office about what we can tell
you to do or not to do. Um, which is
nothing. We can't tell you to do
anything.
And so, it was really good learning
process and but I'm glad to hear you
talk about one of the pieces that we had
talked about in the welcoming city
resolution was the opportunity for
remote accessibility. And so you are
offering that to folks if an attorney
asks because someone you know maybe has
um is afraid for because of their
immigration status or whatever you're
able to provide that for them.
Mayor Counselor uh Bencomo. Yes, we do
provide remote um
essentially all traffic case. someone
could receive a traffic ticket uh or
citation
um and come to the or contact the
municipal court and request a telephonic
arraignment. We facilitate that. Um and
then all
CA hearings on the traffic cases are
handled remotely and then any other
types of cases generally require um a
request to the court. uh for remote
appearance and then that would be up to
myself or Judge Das at whichever CA
whichever judge is hearing the case to
determine whether or not it's
appropriate for remote appearance.
Thank you so much. That's really
important. And then in terms of the SOS
court, I just really want to thank you
for being open to that suggestion from
us a couple of years ago. I feel really
strong strongly about providing
alternatives to detention and um by no
means do I have the expectation that
this program is to be perfect. uh right
out the gate, but I just really
appreciate your court's willingness to
be open to that. And I know that
sometimes things are tricky between this
governing body and the court, but you
know, I want to I want to hear from you
and your case manager on what's working,
what's not working, how can we be
supportive that I really care about
that. And so, whatever we can do to help
you make improvements and those kinds of
things, I think that's that's really
important for us to hear from you and I
I welcome that. Mayor Counselor Big
Como. Yeah, we um we greatly appreciate
the support that the council has given
to the municipal court um the last
couple years and none of the things I
talked about would not have been
possible um but for you uh this
governing body listening to some of the
uh ideas that I had and and uh
supporting those. So, thank you so much.
No, that's a testament to your
leadership judge. You're doing a
wonderful job. And then my last question
is around the TID. I'm wondering Chris
if you can answer this. I'm just curious
for things like some of the more capital
needs that the judge mentioned up here
like the vehicle is that something that
TID could help cover. Um I'm just
curious about what that would look like.
Um Mayor Councelor Ben Como, can you say
the last part again? You said capital.
Um uh judge will you go back to your
needs um slide?
So like for example the vehicle for
municipal court or technology
improvements is that like those kinds of
more you know they're not programmatic
they're like these tangible things. Um
is the TID able like can we have
discussions about TID funds being able
to cover some of these things? Mayor,
councelor Ben Ko. Yeah, I think that's
definitely we could have a discussion
and if you'd like I could include that
at a future TID board meeting. I believe
April 27th will be the next one. If
you'd like I can put that on the agenda
and we can discuss.
I think that would be important just
given um the court's location and that
there is funds in the TID that could go
a long way to supporting the court. I
would I would appreciate that.
Certainly.
Thank you so much. Thank you, Chris.
Those are all my questions, judge. Thank
you,
Council Matis.
Yes, thank you. Anthony, could I uh just
get an idea where your revenue streams
come from? Do you have a breakdown
as far as our re revenue
your budget? Yeah. Is it all
I believe it all comes from the general
fund.
100%.
From the general fund. Right.
And and I I bring that up because um you
know, you have quite a lot of needs here
and you now the vacancies that are empty
that's already budgeted. You're just
having difficulty
filling them. When will they be filled?
We mayor counselor Mis, thank you for
the question uh question. We're in the
process of filling those vacancies um
now. I believe they're they're
relatively recent. um vacancies. What
what we've kind of experienced over my
last couple years at the municipal court
is um we bring folks in at the court
clerk position uh entry level. They
um we train them, develop them, invest
in them. we get them to where they need
and they either potentially move on to a
different city department or um to the
state courthouse uh which offers a
little bit better pay. Uh so we're
constantly and we're trying to figure
out ways internally to to retain uh
folks, but we're constantly in a
training development uh type phase. So
we're trying to fill those immediate.
And Mr. Felos, I you have two judges and
how many years have we had just two
judges going from let's say 10 years
ago?
Was it two judges then?
Mayor Councelor Matise, I believe it's I
I'm not sure exactly. Um, you know, it
seems to me that 114,000 population and
looking at your case numbers, uh, um, do
you go home at night?
Uh,
there councelor Matis, we we uh, yeah,
we go home at night, but we're there um
early. We handle our our court hearings
start at 7:30 in the morning. So, we're
we're there early.
Yeah. I mean my my feeling is not only
some of the the capital infrastructure
needs and the technology needs and the
remote does a good job but it I think
with the population today I would
suggest that maybe this council would
consider actually another judge. So that
that's the way I feel with your
presentation. So thank you very much for
it.
Mayor Council Matise, thank you for the
questions.
Council.
Oh, I my question is just really quick
related somewhat to what councelor Matis
is mentioning. Judge Flossa. When you
say there's no alternate judge, does
that mean we should update our code to
add an alternate judge in that? I see
this reference. And if so, I I know that
you probably don't like to tell us what
to do, but if you are, I now is your
time and we're happy to hear it and we
will follow up in doing so.
Mayor Counselor Corin, thank you for the
question. The that specific reference to
the municipal code um talks about an
alternate judge being um used in
situations when neither of the full-time
judges are available. We're on leave,
were incapacitated, absent at a municip
I think it states the municipal judge
conference. So, um, we I'm just
like I indicated, Judge Dasa and I are
there all the time for the most part and
we stagger our time off. So, the court
is generally um there's one of us there.
Um, but um in a situation where
um we both have to recuse off of a case
for for whatever reason, there would no
be no alternate judge to hear that case.
Um and so that specific um ordinance
deals with that sort of situation. So I
have no position on it. That hasn't came
up yet and we stagger our time off. So
generally the court is uh able to
function. Um
but yeah, I hope that answers your
question.
It does. Thank you. I just wanted to
make sure that I didn't miss if you were
requesting something of us that I I was
missing. Uh I I appreciate you
clarifying. It's just a matter of
finding that person and and you you all
that's something you all do internally,
right? Appointing the alternate judge. I
don't think that's something that we've
ever done that I know of.
Mayor Counselor Corin, I believe under
the ordinance it says u the mayor with
advice and consent of the council would
make that appointment. So, it's not the
municipal court's appointment to make.
Okay. Thank you.
Yep.
Councelor Mcome.
Thanks, Mayor. Just to follow up on
that, I I don't know like in the past
since I've been here, I know that there
used to be several
um alternate judges and so I don't know
what happened to those if people just
retire or go or whatever. But if we need
to um if we need to appoint them, I
don't know, maybe we work with the city
clerk to put that out. Um, and then
because I know that we appoint we also
appoint
municipal judge one and two until you
have to go to an election. That's the
only thing the caveat here, right? Like
there's a difference between the
alternate judges and then I don't know
if we wanted I don't know by the city
charter we we would need to create a
whole new third position full-time
because then there's like elections
involved and things like that. The
alternate judges, those don't go through
elections. They're just appointed there
and to fill in any vacancies. I just
wanted to add that little bit of
context. But u Mayor and Christine, I
think if we can um go and recruit
people, I think that that we can do
that.
Mayor,
thank you, Mayor City Counselors. Um
thank you, Judge Filosa, for your
service and for your patience and your
staff's patience with the working
conditions that you're you're in
currently. Couple of questions. I on
your numbers. Thanks for sharing the
numbers. Thanks for um sharing the
overall numbers. The um you know, we're
we're aware of the increase with
misdemeanors and and um you know, that
is concerning. There are some positive
trends. I the weddings I I like that uh
shows that more people are in love and
and getting together. So, please
continue that good work. Um but but
there there's some curious um so when I
look at at animal services complaints or
animal control uh there's a considerable
drop from the very be you know year
after year after year there's a drop and
this might be again more of a question
for law enforcement but I want to see if
you have a perspective on that same
thing for codes you know codes for
example started 591 and then ended up
last year at about 265 or something to
that effect um do you have perspective
or or any insight on that other than
what law enforcement
mayor mayor prom Munoz thank you for the
question uh I apologize but I don't we
just handle we don't know uh why cases
are being filed or or why they aren't we
just handle the cases as they come in
got you thank you
y
appreciate you
council
m
Anthony sorry I just had another
question on on the idea of alternate
judges is because full-time, you know,
complicated elections and and budget.
What What does an alternate judge earn?
Is there a a set amount of money that is
put out by the clerk's office when we
apply for an alternate judge or do you
do it?
Mayor, councelor Matise, thank you for
the questions. If I can
if if I could just have one.
I mayor, councelor Matise, I believe
it's in the ordinance and I looked at it
this morning before uh coming over
coming over here. Um I believe it says
by resolution passed by the um council
um as to their pay. I know I know that
there was one because
um there was use of of alternate judges
um recently and and those um were able
to to pay that individual.
And the reason I bring that up, Anthony,
maybe we're not attracting maybe we
don't have seven, eight alternate judges
just waiting to to jump in and help
because maybe we need to look at that
compensation. you know, if it's five
years old, 10 years old, three, you
know, costs have increased and and maybe
it' be more attractive if if uh you
know, the compensation was greater. It's
just an idea.
Thank you.
Well, Judge Felosa, thank you. Thank you
for being here today. Thank you for all
that you're doing. Uh this was a great
presentation so we can address some of
those things as we discuss the
alternative judge and the technology the
vehicle see how we can uh generate some
resources there for you some funding and
um the public defender sounds like it's
already in the works and is going to be
done and of course we don't lose sight
of the long term the building we know
that's a that's a huge issue and we're
always looking at it and see what we can
do and and get it in our capital outlay
to to get you a a new home because the
second floor u is is is not really where
it should be. But uh I'm glad that you
and your staff were able to do the best
with it and actually as you said the
numbers even increased. Uh so just want
to thank you for all that you do and
providing justice for our community.
Thank you very much.
Mayor Council, thank you uh for the
invitation. Have a great day.
So, next on the um agenda is item 2.2,
fiscal year 2627, budget review and
public hearing. Bless you, Lord.
Good, excuse me. Good afternoon, mayor,
council, staff, and public. Lesie Doyle,
finance director for the record. Today,
I am here to present to you our fiscal
year 27 proposed budget. In addition to
that, I would like to take the
opportunity to pres provide some
realignment strategies that we may want
to consider.
All funds expenditures is before you.
Our fiscical year 26 revised budget for
all funds is 691.5
million and for fiscal 27 it's 598.1
million.
This is very summarized but I would say
that we do have our proposed budget book
online available at the library as well
as the city clerk's office. If you would
like to see the detail of these, I will
be talking very specifically about
general fund throughout the
presentation, but there are a couple
things that I do want to point out in
this slide.
The first is that our special revenue
funds and debt service
do show a decrease year-over-year. Those
funds are typically brought in
throughout the year as the agency and
council approves those budgets. So, you
will see that increase throughout the
year. Also, enterprise funds has a
budget of 199 million. I just wanted to
point out that the bulk of that is
utilities with the exception of transit
which is 8.6 million which includes our
grant match as well as airport of 3.5
million. Other than those two enterprise
funds, the remainder of those expenses
are related to utilities.
And then lastly, uh, internal services.
In the past, we have budgeted our fleet
department out of internal service.
Going forward for fiscal 27. We are
moving that to general fund. It is a
budget neutral move, but just from an
operational standpoint does make more
sense to have fleet in the general fund.
So for general fund specifically, you
can see that there is an increase of
13.2 2 million from our revised fiscal
26 to 27 proposed. That is a 7.9%
increase.
And for those of you that like charts
like I do that help me see a little bit
better, there's our our chart.
Again, the bulk of our budget is in the
general fund, enterprise funds, and
capital funds.
So for our general fund expenditures, as
I just mentioned, there is a 7.9%
increase from 167.5 million to
80.7 million.
So I do want to point out before I get
to the fiscal proposed I want to look at
the adopted versus revised because there
has been a lot of work that has been
done to get you know to a better place
throughout the year. So you can see that
our beginning balance based on our
audited numbers was reduced by 10.9
million. However, we were able to bring
in additional revenue of 11.9 million.
But what I really want to point out
because it's been a lot of hard work and
all hands on deck for all departments
and the budget team is that we were able
to reduce expenses of 7.8 million as
well as transfers of 5 million. So that
is the work that we have done throughout
this year to help mitigate some of our
budget constraints. So now looking
forward to fiscal 27
we are projecting a proposed beginning
balance of 52.2 million
revenue of 185.4 million which is a 3.9%
increase expenditures of 180.7 million
which is a 7.9% increase. Transfers will
be going down. You've t heard me talk a
lot about transfers. So we do anticipate
transfers going down about 16.6 million
and all of that will once we incorporate
our required 212 reserve will get us to
an ending balance of 2.1
million.
So where your money comes from this is
the revenue side of the equation. By and
large, the revenue does come from gross
receipts tax about 79%.
We have fees and charges of 18 million,
which is about 10%, property tax is 9%
and then franchise fees and cannabis
excise tax to get us to a total
projected revenue of 185.4
million.
Now, where does our money go?
You can see that we have 130 million in
personnel operating of about 50 million
and capital of just shy of 500,000. We
typically don't make capital purchases
out of general fund, so that's to be
expected. About 72% of our budget is
personnel and 28% is operating.
And so you did hear me speak a little
earlier about the total increase of the
budget being 13.2%. 2%.
One of the things that we asked
departments to do was go back actually
to fiscal 25
in their budget. And so we were able to
hold both operating and capital flat.
So you can see that the entirety of the
increase in the budget is related to
personnel.
So, speaking of personnel, the
considerations that we did make when we
were projecting our personnel budget is
a 2% general wage increase, GWI.
Longevity for those employees that would
get that is incorporated. We have vacant
positions budgeted at 50%.
Health insurance at the employee and
spouse rate. Thankfully, no parah
increase this year, but we do have an
insurance premium increase budgeted of
20%.
So, this is the personnel going back to
the 130 million that I did mention. You
can see police, fire, and parks and
wreck round out the top three. Not
surprising because they are the most
labor intensive of the the departments.
For the personnel breakdown, I did want
to show this because there's a couple of
things that we are completely out of our
control. So we do have salaries of 62%,
health insurance and parah of 14 and 13%
respectively. Both of those we have no
control over those increases. Those come
down from the state. We do have some
control over the percentage that we pay
as a city but the increase itself is not
something that we can control. So you
can see health insurance 18.7 and parah
of 16.5. Those are huge amounts as part
of our budget that we really have no
control over.
Then I want to talk about operating of
50 million. You can see uh again public
works, parks and wreck and fleet round
out the top three as far as operating
expenses.
And then for our general fund transfers,
we have MO of 40,000, Griggs Walnut of
200,000, vehicle acquisition
500,000,
airport 776, workers comp of 950,
prisoner care 1.3 million. This is our
transit required match of 4 million,
liability claims of 6.5, and then debt
service of 10.9 million.
to get us to a total transfer from
general fund of 24.7
million.
So, I know you've heard me talk a lot in
the past about debt service and not
really wanting to incur additional debt,
and you can see here why. Because if we
do not incur additional debt, that
transfer that we make from general fund
to our debt service does go down. So
this chart is assuming that there is no
additional debt that we're going to
incur paid from the general fund.
Then we have the vehicle acquisition
list. First and foremost at the very top
is the MUN court Ford Escape. So
we've already we got you. I do want to
point out uh both fire and utilities,
those while they are on the vehicle
acquisition list, they are not going to
be paid from general fund. There's other
funding sources that will be utilized
for those vehicles.
For fiscal 27, we do have new positions.
The new position, all of the new
positions that we have budgeted are
related to the uh opening of fire
station 9.
for our fiscal agent contribution.
Fiscal agent contributions.
Let me get to my right page here.
We did work with our partners at both
animal service center and MVDA to
incorporate additional fund balance this
year. So you can see that for animal
services we have about a 7.5% decrease
and for MVDA it is a small increase but
it because they did utilize that
additional fund balance the increase is
less than it would have been had they
not incorporated that additional fund
balance and then our metro transfer or
contribution is the same year-over-year.
So for Telshore project updates, you can
see here we have our original budget and
then our carryover estimate which has
been provided by CIP.
And then page two of Telshore.
So the next slide that I want to talk
about is something that you guys have
seen. Oh, there is one more. I'm sorry.
Uh these are the new Telshore requests.
Monoemano health related public services
of 600,000 homeless outreach. All new
requests for Telshore about 1.5 million.
Now the next slide that you guys have
seen a version of what you have seen
historically and I have presented has
been for fiscal 23 forward because I
have said and and do still feel that co
really skews a lot of our numbers but I
did want to see what what we looked like
precoid during COVID and then the
subsequent years after CO.
So you can see here fiscal 19 and 20
looks really good. The lines are right
exactly where we would want them to be.
Revenue and expenses are equal. Then as
COVID comes, you can see the the revenue
increase. I would also add that
effective uh fiscal 22, we did get the
destinationbased GRT, which was a pretty
significant increase to our revenue.
But then when we got to between 23 and
24, you can see as you we've talked
before that line can where revenue is
non-matching expense. So that continues
and what happens in that case is that we
have to utilize our fund balance. So you
can see over the years where the fund
balance does continue to decrease and
the budget as it is currently proposed
does also exceed expenses do exceed
revenue.
So I talked a little bit about what we
have already done excuse me to help this
year. I want to call out a couple of
additional things that we've done where
we have aligned our 26 and 27 budgets
back to our fiscal 25 expenditures.
An actual budget reduction of 9.1
million in fiscal 25. In fiscal 27, what
we did was as departments,
excuse me, as departments proposed their
budgets, we told them that they needed
to go back and reduce what they were
asking for.
We reduced general fund transfers by 9.8
million, which is a pretty significant
decrease from 26. As I just talked
about, we reduced our JPA contributions.
We instituted a hiring committee and
hiring freeze reducing FTEEs by 33
positions.
And then we just performed a review of
all funds. As I say, we looked under
every rock to find any available funding
that we could utilize and and bring back
to the general fund if it was
appropriate and then reduced travel cost
and encouraged online trainings.
So, this is what our budget looks like
over the years from fiscal 29 to our
proposed. Again, you can see capital is
pretty negligible. not much paid for
from general fund for capital funds
operating while it is increased it's a
pretty steady increase and and even for
fiscal 27 you can see a slight decrease
but personnel is really going up pretty
dramatically
and so what what gets us here for
personnel because that is the biggest
part of our budget the biggest increase
in our budget so what are the things
that got us here. I wish there was one
thing that I could point to and say this
is what what caused this, but there's a
myriad of them. I'm just going to point
out a few here. Going back to fiscal 22,
when we were self-insured and then went
into the state plan and the city picked
up 80% of the costs and then 20% the
employees
paid. We had a minimum wage impact where
all city employees were moved to a $15
minimum wage. That was about a $4.02
increase to the budget. And keeping in
mind as we talk about all of these, they
compound year-over-year. So while it
might cost us 4 million one year, it's
going to cost us 4 something the next
year.
Then in fiscal 23 we had police contract
increases 14% sworn increase increases
for 14 14% for sworn officers and 6.5
for non-sworn officers and then we had a
class and comp study that was
implemented that cost about 4.3 million.
And then in fiscal 24 we had a 13%
13% increase for fire for their
represented employees. And then the
state of New Mexico instituted a 10%
increase and rather than pass that on to
the employees, the city did absorb that,
thus creating the 82% that the city now
pays for and 18 that this employee pays
for.
For fiscal 25, we had a 10% increase in
insurance. 26, we had a 20% increase in
insurance. And then in fiscal 27, our
current budget, we do have a 2% GWI
budgeted. We also have pending
collective bargaining agreements for
both police and blue collar and a
budgeted increase of 20%.
So, one of the things that I would like
to talk about now is what are our
options going forward?
What can we do to get to a fiscally
sustainable budget?
And so, if we
This is the current budget as it stands
on the left here.
We have a beginning balance of 52
million, revenues of 185 million,
expenditures of 180, net transfers of
24. That gets us to an ending balance of
32 million.
From that 32 million, we do have 21
12ths that we have to subtract out, thus
leaving an unrestricted fund balance of
2.085
million. So that is the current budget
as it stands. Now, as we forecast and
look forward to fiscal 28, we did make
some assumptions and wanted to see what
that might look like if we adopted the
budget as it currently stands.
We have forecasted a beginning balance
of 32 million, revenue of 190,
expenditures of 183,
reduction in net transfers
sum for of 24 million, giving us an
ending balance of 14 million.
So what does that mean? That means that
our ending balance
we would have nothing to budget in
subsequent years because we would have
completely utilized all of our fund
balance. In addition to that we would
have to use
one 12th of our our reserve. So that is
if we do nothing and budget and the
budget passes as it currently stands,
we would utilize uh if if we did that
with our current budget, we would
utilize $20 million of our fund balance.
So we do have the option of vacancies.
The budget does include 7.8 million of
vacancy savings. These are positions
that are not currently filled.
If we were to do that, the expenditures,
you can see, would decrease from 180
million to 172 million. Thus, meaning we
would only use about 12% of our fund
balance. Going forward with the same
assumptions in fiscal 28, that would
leave a available balance of about 1.1
million.
Along those same lines, if we chose just
to cut operating costs of 8 million,
it's a similar effect, we would utilize
fund balance of 12 million, giving us an
available balance in 28 of 1.3 million.
And then lastly,
if we were to do both of those things,
that means that we would have total cuts
of the 7.8 8 million plus the 8 million
in operating costs.
Fund balance utilization of 4.1 million
giving us an available balance of $18
million in 28 which means that we would
have a beginning balance then in 29.
So just to quickly summarize the options
here, we could adopt the current
proposed budget as it is utilizing $20
million of fund balance. We could use
vacancy savings of 7.8 and we would
utilize $12 million of our fund balance.
Operating cuts, excuse me, operating
cuts of 8 million also utilizing 12
million of our fund balance.
And last, the option would be to use
utilize both of those and we would have
vacancy savings and operating cuts of
about 15 million, decreasing our fund
balance utilization to about 4.1
million.
And with all of that information, I will
stand for questions.
Thank you, Leslie.
Councelor Harris.
Um, thank you, Mayor and Leslie. That's
that's a very good presentation. Um, I
think we we've all seen it several times
before coming up to this. Um, so there
there are hard choices to make. Um, I
guess a an easy question to start off.
On slide nine, you said longevity for
employees. Can you define what that is?
What that means for
I can't speak specifically. Actually, I
don't know if HR is here. I do know that
we have policy that says if you've been
here for so long, then you would get an
increase.
Got it. Okay. Um
and then
um
let's see on slide 14,
just wanted to say that I'm happy to see
this line go down. Um that's that's
good. That's good for for everybody in
the city and our future sustainability.
Um, on slide 15 on the fleet, I was
wondering
how many of these I mean it looks like
we have one hybrid vehicle. Um, are we
having serious conversations about
electric hybrid vehicles, whether we
need giant F250s and stuff? I know this
is all departments and they have their
own needs. Um but looking towards
operating expenses which is you know
half of what we're talking about um
you know have how are we looking at our
fleet and the the operating
sustainability of it.
Mayor Councelor Harris I would have to
get some information from Mercedes. I am
not entirely sure how how she's
approaching that.
Okay. Um that's fair. Um
and then
on the uh I guess our options. Um
so I just wanted to clarify that when
when we're doing vac when you're saying
vacancy savings that that means we're
not talking about laying people off who
already work here. This is positions
that are budgeted but they're vacant
like nobody's currently in them. Um and
we will just decide that they will not
be filled.
Mayor Councelor Harris, that is correct.
Okay. Um so then I guess my thoughts on
this is that on our final options and
and these are my thoughts is that
cutting if we just cut operations then
seems like we'll have people who are
we'll have more people with less to do
because their tools have been cut. Um,
and
you know, likewise, if we
just cut one or the other, it seems like
we're
we're solving the situation for next
year, but we are kicking everything down
the road a little bit. Um, and not
really setting us up for to be in a
sustainable
place. Um and and it does seem like, you
know, positions are vacant, things are
still getting done with those vacant
positions. Obviously, it's not ideal. Um
and then, you know, when it comes to
insurance increases and general wage
increases and stuff, I completely
understand cost of living is going up,
too. Um and obviously, it's for each
department to decide what their own
internal needs are. Um, but a question
that
that I've been asking myself and I'm
sure lots of people are asking is, you
know, would I rather have 2% more money
next year or an extra hand, you know, to
work beside me? Um,
that's a hypothetical question, but, you
know, I think to me it seems like we
need to probably do both things from
just a financial sustainability
perspective. So, those are my thoughts.
Councelor Kirk,
thank you. Um, I appreciate I really
appreciate you fleshing this out even
more. And I know that you won't name
some of the things, but I would say
that, you know, insurance prices as a
function of our investment in our
personnel are an enormously volatile and
frankly infuriating expense. if I can
just name something that I that is a
variable that you don't control that is
dramatically affecting this and will
keep affecting us. Um, so I'm going to
name a villain in that understanding of
what those things are. And I'm I have no
regrets about increasing our staff
salaries or our contributions to
insurance. I just know that that's
something that we're now experiencing
the consequences of. Um, so I just want
to be clear on from from my perspective,
I think I can be convinced um to any of
the more conservative versions of this
that that are um presented because I I
also am discomforted by that red and
green GA graph. If you just want to put
that up, that can like
lord over us. Um, yeah, that one. Uh
the all of these still include a 2%
increase for staff the salary class and
comp whatever is sort of outlined in
that plan and potential CBA discussions
those are all kind of still
part of the whatever we decide here
those three things are on the table
period and is that my understanding of
these three proposals or four proposals
mayor counselor Karan yes they are all
are are all on the table with whatever
direction you give us to go.
I just wanted to say that I I am really
glad that we are still including a
salary increase even if it's negligible
in the scheme of how expensive things
are. I just really want to say whatever
we decide and we can keep this I'm sure
we'll keep having this discussion going.
But I really would like to say that I
don't I want those I want that to stay
and I want it to be um
uh part of this conversation. I think
you know Michael's right, Councelor
Harris is right. It's a it's sort of a
hypothetical, but it's not exactly a
hypothetical. It's like a real like
thing that we have to figure out moving
forward. Um, and so for me, that that is
a really important variable that I
appreciate you including in this um, and
maintaining as part not putting that
thing that we're trying to do, invest in
the human beings that work here, not
putting that on the table is something
that is necessarily negotiable. So, um,
thank you. And I just I am curious to
hear what other folks thoughts are and
um this conversation going forward, but
I want to speak to that 2% keeping it.
Thank you, mayor, counselors. Thank you,
Leslie. Um you'd mentioned or I saw some
overtime reporting on on our
expenditures. One of the things that I
would like to look at and and I and I
get the um not filling positions and
having vacancies, but I also want to
make sure that in the grand scheme of
things, we're actually netting um a win
out of this. If we don't fill positions
and we increase the overtime or keep the
overtime met as is, um I I don't think
we're going to move the the needle
forward, right, mathematically. Um and
and also it goes to work life balance,
right? If we're overworking the current
employees we have with missing
vacancies, um that's also concerning for
quality and just quality of of life as
well. So um I'm assuming that the
departments then are looking at their
scheduling, they're looking at their um
overtime and managing that as as well.
Mayor Councelor Munoz, yes, that is
actually something that they have been
looking at for quite some time. It's not
just new to this this budget, but
something that we have asked them to
look at for
quite a while now.
Wonderful. Wonderful. Um the other the
other piece that you touched on here, I
want to look at at um touching reserves.
I know that cities have ratings. I'm I'm
curious to to see what our rating is uh
and what effect and just just, you know,
maybe explain it and share that with
everybody else. you know, why the the
the rating is so important to a
municipality and what that does for us
long term.
Mayor Councelor Munoz. Yes. Essentially,
the rating is just like a credit score
like any individual would get and the
better the rating, the less it costs to
incur debt. So, you're going to pay a a
lower interest rate, the better rating
that you have.
Thank you, Leslie. And I appreciate all
the work. I know there's a lot of moving
parts here and and uh you're helping us
um squeeze water from the turnup or rock
or whatever that is. So, thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you, Mayor.
Thank you, Councilman Ko.
Thanks. Thank you so much, Leslie, to
you and your team for all the work
you've put on this. Um I think I this is
important. And I think this you should
keep this up here, but um I appreciated
the big context you provided in terms of
how did we get here and if you could go
to those slides for a little bit. I
because for me it just feels really
important.
Where did which slides were those?
Yes. You didn't have page numbers on, so
I didn't have
um
these couple of slides to me show that
we got here because we made a serious
investment in our greatest asset, which
is our people. um with salary increases,
with 8020 insurance split. You know,
when I first came on council, I this was
one of the things the fire and the blue
collar unions talked about most was um
this 8020 that like how little they were
taking home after insurance benefits,
right? And and we made that investment
in our in our people. Um, and to me that
feels something that's really important.
You know, that also that $15 minimum
wage. I mean, we were paying some people
were making $12 an hour. Like that is
not appropriate for a city like us to be
paying poverty wages like that. And so
like all of these things to me feel
it's like this super hard place to be in
then, right? Because then you create
that other graph, right? And as we keep
forward, obviously it's not sustainable.
So, I just but I did want to point that
out that to me it feels like it's these
are sort of the things that come with
living in
capitalism blah blah. Anyway, I won't go
there. Um, what I did also want to add
though for me, I think obviously in the
options you've provided um that there's
really only one option which is for
both. Um, and I the only request that I
have actually I have a question before I
say anything on the vacancy
uh savings that does that include adding
the the benefits that that's like
salaries and benefits projected.
Okay, she's she's saying yes, nodding
her head. Yes,
Mayor Councelor Ko, yes, that is true.
What I would say is that that it's the
the jobs or the vacancies that were
vacant when we pulled this in January.
It's going to look a little bit
different now because there's some, you
know, jobs that have been filled and
things like that, but ultimately the 7.8
million would be our goal to get
Thank you. Okay. Thank you. So, and then
what I was going to say about the
operating I really think it need I just
want to make sure that it's consistent
across all departments. I you know there
was part of at the budget retreat there
was a presentation made about you know
going back to fiscal year 25 some
departments were excluded from that some
weren't I I just think that moving
forward it has to be consistent amongst
all departments because
um I I don't think
I believe that us as electeds as
administrators we shouldn't be placing a
hierarchy on departments right like
which department is more important at
the end of the
this city only it's a puzzle and it only
functions of every piece is there and so
I just think that that that's my request
as we move forward and and I know this
is an easy place to be but I'm just so
glad that we have really competent staff
that we have really great finance folks
and um that can make you know make this
happen. So I really appreciate it. Um I
just had one last question before I
forget. Slide 17, I think.
Do you off the top of your head have the
um portions for the other entities here?
And if you don't, that's okay. I think
in the future, I would like to see that
be um shown
for us.
Mayor, councelor Ben Como, what other
entities? I'm sorry.
So for like this is the Los Cruz's
portion for these for these three. I'm
assuming the county has a portion. Yeah.
So for animal services, it's the same.
We we split it. For MVDA, it is slightly
lower than us. I can get you that
information, but I don't have it.
Okay.
And I think just because this is a
little bit of a convers conversation we
had last week um when it came to the
driving track in terms of like who put
in what and I think councelor Kin
actually mentioned a little bit of of
the tension there. So, I just I think we
have, you know, patterns here that we've
that we've already established and I I
just think it's important um to show
what they have historically looked like.
And then my last request is I we haven't
had a specific time allocated to talk
about the Telshore fund. That would just
be my request if that can happen um
between now and I don't I know. I guess
the Telure fund doesn't necessarily have
to have the deadline that the budget
does, but I do think we should have a
specific conversation about Telshore.
Thank you,
Council Matise.
How long have you been doing this with
the city of Los Cruz? Is it a year yet?
Mayor Councelor Matise, it is just over
a year been with the city. Yes, sir.
just over a year. Um, you know, I I it's
it's a very difficult position and
Connie, I want to thank you for for
being so tough. Of course, I appreciate
option four because I don't think
there's any other course to really go
down. Um,
and I am glad on on the personnel.
What I'm worried about is not 27 28 but
like 20 209.
What will the city do without with a
zero telshore fund? I think it was just
brought up.
What happens when that telshore fund
zeros out?
I mean, you know, you're preparing for
increases in the insurance. You're
preparing probably for increases in
parah. And when the Telshore fund is
zero, there's quite a lot of departments
that will not be able to tap
income, but they still need to get those
services and those employees paid. So,
are you preparing for 2029 or we just
going to worry about 27?
Mayor, Councelor Matise, I I'm worried
about all of it.
Okay. I am too. That said, uh we looked
we we modeled out to 28
and as far as the Telshore fund, we
don't actually pay any salaries from
Telshore. So that's one thing. I know
you don't pay salaries, but what I'm I'm
I'm saying is when you know you have
four or five million for your department
from an entity,
then you're going to provide
the project,
you know, because you know that you're
going to have five or six million
available to you. And when that goes
away,
will there be a curtailment
in in preparing those pro where where do
you find that money?
Mayor, councelor Matise,
I don't know when Telshore is expected
to to go away, but
what's the balance in it now?
It's about $44 million.
And what was the balance in it? Let's
say five years ago.
I can tell you in 22 it was um actually
33 million. So we've had some uh
interest
interest that has
and then five years ago there was
I I only have in front of me till 22 but
I can get you that information.
That's okay if you could. I you know I I
remember seeing figures of 64 and and
higher. Uh
that's my thought. Option four is my my
call. Thank you.
Councelor Curran, did you have your
light on?
I did have a question, but I think it it
it was related to the Telure fund also,
and I agree. I would like I think we
just need to have a separate
conversation about that, but the 600,000
was listed as new. Is that different
from the usual 600,000 that is the kind
of interestbased grants that we issue or
not?
Mayor Counselor Current, that is the
Okay. So, that is the that is not that
isn't a new
You think I'd have this thing.
I'm in for doubling it. Um I would be
all about that, but I didn't think that
that was part of what you were
presenting. Okay. Thank you.
So,
that was my only question. I think it's
on the next the next one and I just
wanted to check in and make sure.
Yes, the health related public service.
Yes, ma'am. So that's these are that one
or all of these are the same as the last
budget year. I know that one is that's
the one that we talk about the most.
They are all the same. Okay.
Okay. Thank you, Leslie. Um yeah,
difficult difficult uh presentation.
Thank you. Um
you know, I appreciate knowing how we
got here. I think there was I didn't see
it. Maybe maybe I missed it on the $15
an hour minimum wage. Was that included?
Okay. Because yeah, that was another
thing that took place. I remember the
class in comp, the insurance pickup and
the $15 minimum wage. So, you know,
that's that's like it's always tough
when you see the expenditures greater
than the revenue. So, we have to do
something. We have to make some
adjustments. And I would be also in
favor of of the vacancies and the
operating costs, but like everything
else, there's always exceptions. There's
there there's always exceptions. I say
that's a starting point. That's what we
have to look at. That's what we have to
address. If it's a vacancy, uh clearly
if it's not needed and if it hasn't
been, then we shouldn't be moving
forward with that at this time. And then
looking at the operating costs. I think
looking back, one of the things that we
learned uh during COVID was was some of
the things that um how we were going to
conduct business and what was vital to
the community, what was absolutely
needed and what wasn't. And I think we
need to go back and and and review some
of those things as an organization and
say, what can we do? What can we do
different? How can we reduce cost? how
can we do things that we can manage and
and still get ahead? Uh but again, like
I said, there's always an exception to
the rule. Um so if that vacancy has been
vacant but is needed, then that's going
to be the city manager and the
director's calls to see what those
exceptions are. And the same way with uh
cutting back on the operating cost. So
that's where I'm at at this point is
definitely looking at the cutbacks, but
then again there are exceptions to the
rule.
Thank you, mayor. So am I
to understand that the next step for us
is to work with the departments to look
at those vacancies and the $8 million
cuts and then do you want us to come
back to you one more time before budget
for a work session? What is the
direction there?
How's everybody thinking? Moving. Um I'm
sorry. City manager, did you have
something?
Yeah, I think uh because this is a
public hearing. I forgot about that.
Thank you. Is uh let's open it up to the
public and then we can we can finalize
the direction at that point.
Thank you, Liz.
So yeah, at this point, uh, let's open
it up for public comment. Anybody that
wants to come and speak to this issue,
uh, we'll give you two minutes. Uh,
start making your way to the podium.
Mayor, city council. My name is Lucas
Hearnen. For the record, um
cutting operations based on the graphics
that were presented today affects um
parks and wreck
and I believe it was utilities the most.
um which I find
disparaging um to this community that
has repeatedly and loudly called for
more investment in these community
assets. Um
I also couldn't help but notice there's
a line item um at one point in one of
the early slides that listed li
liability payments at $6.5 million. Um,
and judging from the history and record
of the police department of this city, I
imagine that a good amount of that money
comes from liability based on the times
that they've committed crimes and had
cities had to pay for those crimes. Um,
and it's worth noting that $6.5 million
is only about a half million dollars
different than the proposal to freeze
hiring. Um, so this city is at a
position where we have to choose between
whether we hire for our budgeted um,
staff allotments for all of our
departments or paying for the crimes of
our cops. Something to consider as you
make these uh, decisions moving forward.
Thank you.
Mayor, Council Juan Garcia, I'm
listening to the budget discussion and I
would love to hear of how we can
increase our revenues, perhaps a more
quote welcoming new business ordinance
would help.
The last council meeting was full of
smiles, distractions, and dog whistles.
Who doesn't love parks and recck
centers? I'm all for green spaces. I've
got nothing against parks. I've spent
plenty of time with my son and I'm a fan
of the library. But per the city page,
Les Cruises has 90 parks ranging from
small neighborhoods,
pocket parks to larger destination
spaces. There's 1,500 acres of parkland,
over 100 acres of athletic field fields,
and 37 miles of multi-purpose trails.
Could we use more parks? Maybe.
Recenters, sure. Could we do a better
job keeping them safe and maintained?
Definitely. So, why the sudden shift in
tactics from the Las Cruus anti- police
group? They've gone from calling police
murderers, even though I just heard it
again here, uh, to cheering for more
wreck facilities. In my opinion,
attacking and trying to defund the
police was too blatant. So now they're
pushing a quote noble cost to move money
away from public safety. Some of the
council are using the same playbook.
Public safety ends up with less funding.
Meanwhile, the city's crime problem
keeps growing. The anti- police crowd
still gets what they want. We can't
afford
to decrease our funds for public safety.
Look around you. Why aren't new
businesses
coming to Las Cusus? Why are we trying
to push away new businesses? Because
they don't want it here. Because in
part, the crime problem. Thank you.
Hello, my name is Johanni Hernandez. Um,
and I would like to um first uh recall
that uh I don't think there is a city in
the United States that has ever reduced
its uh police budget um ever. So, that's
not a concern. I don't think this
council will do that. um the the police
budget will maintain the same and
probably grow um as uh as is want to do.
Um that being said uh remembering some
of the comments made earlier uh I would
like to uh remind us all about some of
the things that our police get up to in
particular with an individual who is
named uh Tony Valenuela. On February
29th, 2020, Lasus police stopped a
vehicle with two women sitting in the
front and Tony Valenuela sitting in the
back. The cops made out made Tony get
out of the vehicle and Tony ran. Like so
many people in the United States, LCPD
hunted him for a parole violation. He
had experienced much police brutality in
his lifetime. Officer Christopher
Smelster trace chase after Tony, tased
him, and put him in a vascular choke
hold until he passed out and died. All
in the matter of less than 3 minutes.
You can hear Smelter saying to Tony,
"I'm going to effing choke you out,
bro." While choking him to death, and a
few seconds later saying to the
onlooking cops, "Yeah, he's out." After
you can hear Tony snoring, taking his
last breaths. Smelter and his partner
handcuffed Tony's dead body and left him
on the ground for 12 hours. Tony's
sister, Valerie, found out that her
brother was brutally murdered by LCPD
through a friend who happened to walk by
the scene a few hours later. When
Valerie called LCPD, they refused to
give her any information. Enraged that
her brother was killed by the police,
Valerie began protesting for justice for
Tony. Judge Driggers, who put a gag
order on Valerie, meaning if she
continued protesting and putting her
brother's name in public eye, she would
face consequences. He cited that
Smeltzer was afraid afraid for his life
during his trial after he killed
somebody. This trial during this trial,
Judge Driggers dismissed Smeltzer's
murder charge, citing there was enough
evidence even though um there was
obvious body cam footage of Smelzer
killing Tony.
Smelzer was then given $225,000 by the
city of Los Cusus to settle that twerk.
Thank you.
My name is Fred Huff
and the big question in my mind is
what is the city supposed to do for us a
government?
You know, in my mind, they should be
providing public safety,
good streets, good infrastructure,
and things to make our quality of life
correct.
I'm sorry, but I don't think it's your
job or the city's job to provide
entertainment.
I mean, Mr. Hearnen and his group, they
got the Oregon Peaks National Monument.
That's thousands of acres that people
can go out there in our public lands and
entertain themselves. We don't need uh
more parks. You heard how many parks and
trails that Mr. Garcia just mentioned.
It's astounding. And when I saw these
budget figures that parks and recreation
was right up there,
I mean, right up there with the police
and public works, it's like, why? You
should be focusing on the quality of
life. You know, most these streets I
drive down, it's like, how many
centuries ago were these things paved?
This is what we need to improve our
city. When I'm and and in fact with Burn
Lake, which you all know I'm I'm called
the Burn Lake guy. Um
I mean the restrooms over there, the
nice big expensive restrooms, they're
gated shut because they can't be
maintained. Why do we need more parks
when we can't even take care of the ones
we have? So let's focus on public safety
and infrastructure and making a good
quality of life. It's not your job to
entertain us. Thank you.
Bless you.
Councilman Cole,
I was just going to say that I don't
need another work session. I think um
personally I feel like Leslie has and
the team have laid out a path forward
for um the budget, but that's just my
suggestion. And also remind us the
deadline. When do we have to approve by?
We are adopting on May 18th. Let me see.
Yes, Cynthia says yes.
The last the last day of April.
The last day of April.
Oh, okay. Well, then no work session.
Well, we have to get it to the designer
and available for public. And
yeah, I believe the budget gets improved
in May, but I I would be in agreement
too. I think I think we can move forward
uh from here. But uh go ahead, Mayor
Pro.
Uh mayor, city councilor's point of
clarification. So that's option four
that um we're talking about that think
um
yes,
just wanted to make sure that we were
all on the same page.
Christine, I don't know how to get this
back on here.
I'm sorry, I can't hear anything.
Okay, here comes Vanessa to the rescue.
Vanessa to save the day.
Thank you.
Yeah, I just want to make sure we were
all on the same page. I think we're kind
of in agreement. Um, and we have
consensus, but I just want to make sure
we
are exactly on the same page.
Think I could have figured that out
since I'm solving world hunger here.
Okay. Option four. Yes.
Yeah. So, the agreement, just a nod of
heads if we're looking at option four as
an agreement.
Thank you, Mayor. Yes.
Yes. Thank you, Leslie.
Thank you.
Next is item 2.3, capital improvement
program, FY27,
and then we'll have the review and
public hearing. Cynthia Almo.
Good afternoon, mayor, city council. My
name is Cindia Lao, Capital Improvements
Program, and I'm here to present the
proposed fiscal year 27 CAP.
Prior to starting my presentation, I
would like to take a moment to thank uh
city staff. All of the departments have
been very helpful through this process.
They have been very patient with CIP
staff in con as we constantly reach out
to verify and gather information. Uh CIP
is a program of two. So I want to also
thank uh the current CIP analyst that's
helped me get through this process.
The capital improvements program called
CIP is required by charter and it helps
us identify capital needs and identify
potential funding sources. It also helps
inform the selection of legislative
priorities as every year the city seeks
to try uh to secure state funding. It
informs the public of the city's
infrastructure investments and provides
a view of both funded projects and
unfunded needs.
The CIP produces a capital improvements
document
where we have one year of funded and
five years of unfunded needs. Those are
needs that we have not been able to
secured.
The projects are guided by city council
adopted plan which includes and is not
limited to the comprehensive plan,
active transportation plan, parks master
plan and climate action plan. And the
main intent of this is where we have uh
the elevate las cruises as the most
prominent plan. Elevated Las Cruises
sets the direction for the city in the
long term, but it will basically set
policy. For example, let's make sure
that we improve all streets to
accommodate for all users. Then the CIP
will be used to identify the best
reconstruction projects to ensure we can
get to that goal.
The CAP also relies on multiple funding
sources, including local funds, grants,
bonds, and loans, and is approved by
council and is amended as needed.
As of today, the proposed CIP has 309
projects. Our number went up a little
bit as we had new projects, but it also
balanced with projects that were
completed.
If we decide to complete all of the
projects that we currently have on the
CIP for the next five years, we will
need 1.2 billion.
Out of the projects we have in the CAP,
164 projects have no funding identified
and 145 projects have some sort of
funding identified.
I want to point out that this slide
really identifies the funding need that
the city has for the next few for the
coming years for the future. I also want
to clarify that the projects that do not
have any funding right now does not mean
that are not priorities or that they are
are not necessities. They're just
projects that we have not been able to
find a funding path to ensure they move
forward.
The proposed fiscal year of 27 cap, this
is a comparison from last year.
the funded projects had a four point
four point increase which is always good
as we notice we had uh more grants and
more funding allocated to some of the
projects but at the same time our
unfunded needs for the next five years
significantly increase. So we're
constantly seeing this need of um
capital projects in needs increase our
capacity to meet that demand.
As I move forward, I also want to make a
note that the preliminary CIP was
published in uh March 30th and there was
a with the numbers I'm presenting right
now, there's a slight change. We are
anticipating some grant funding for the
airport and for the animal service
center. So we want to capture that. So
we're reflecting those numbers to
capture those uh upcoming ex uh upcoming
funding.
So how does our CIP looks right now?
We have 309 projects and the CIP groups
projects in four different categories.
This is to help us understand and keep
track of our projects better. We have
110 carryover projects. Usually those
projects are the ones are multi-year.
That means they need one year or two
years in the cap in order to get
completed. We have 48 annual projects.
These are projects that are recurring in
nature where we know that every year
there's an anticipated need to make sure
we meet that demand. For example, trail
improvements. We know that the
improvement of trails will be a
recurring need. We also have future
projects. We have 147. Those are
projects that unfortunately right now
have not identified a funding source.
And then we want to highlight the newly
funded. While we have only six newly
funded, um we're trying our best to
secure funding sources for all of our
projects.
On the other side, you'll see the
breakdown of the current funding that's
in place. You see that 94% of the
projects that have funds are majority
carryover. Again, at some point it
started and then they're continuing into
the next fiscal year. We have then 6%
for only those annual projects where we
anticipate uh that recurring need year
after year.
Now, when we talk about funding
for CIP projects, it's important to
recognize that we need to rely on
multiple funding sources.
It's really hard and challenging for a
project that's in the CIP to be able to
get completed or have a significant uh
advancement with just one funding
source. So the critical asset in uh CIP
is to how can we combine our multiple
funding sources to make sure we move our
projects forward. Currently we have
local funding at 3 37%.
This includes all of our impact fees. We
have Telure, we have TID, we have state
funded that usually represents our
capital alllay and not any other grant
that was given by the state. federal
funding with 15% and bonds and loans
with 31%.
Next, this is a representation of our
CIP projects by category. The categories
in the CIP are meant to help the
community understand the breadth of the
project themselves. So the takeaway in
this slide is that
the number of projects
really does not guarantee the number of
funding sources. For example, I can
point out at attainable affordable
housing, they currently have only four
projects, but the amount of funding
sources they have in that category is
one of the highest. That means because
their projects are more complicated and
more expensive.
So then we this help us understand how
the CIP projects vary in nature. We have
smaller projects for example we have it
just two projects for almost $500
$500,000
but then we go on the other end uh with
utilities 20 projects and a uh carryover
of 72 million which is quite
significant.
We then have the breakdown of the CIP
projects by department. Hopefully this
will give you a um a quick view on
capacity related to departments.
We we follow the same logic as to not
necessarily the most funded department
carries the largest number of projects.
We have again um the largest number
right now 42 projects with public works
where currently they have 44 million but
then I can point out again to um for
example parks and wreck with 23 projects
for 60 millions. So again this is a
reminder that CIP projects are not one
of a kind. They vary in size, they vary
in need, and most of all, they vary on
the uh funding strategy in order to move
them forward.
This is a breakdown of our funding needs
for our next five years.
We are currently presenting a CIP that
has a funded uh column for fiscal year
27 but we have already identified the
needs for the next five years and as we
mentioned at first that in that funding
need is increasing year by year.
So if we want to make sure we move
forward with our projects, make sure we
get them to completion, we need to start
thinking about how can we maximize our
funding sources, how can we maximize all
of the funding opportunities that the
state and government uh gives us, and we
should take advantage.
Quickly, you can see that um the highest
re need right now is public facilities,
which includes all of our community
centers, our rec centers, all of those
entities where the community really uh
can benefit and it's considered an
amenity.
So we mentioned how we have significant
funding sources but still it's important
to recognize that the funding needs for
the next five years are still
significant as well. Here we have
utilities where they have right now 72
million for this next fiscal year but
for the next five years they will need
162 million.
Well, we recognize that they have um
again funding sources. They also have
significant needs and that those needs
vary. For example, one project that they
need is a lift station P upgrade which
is just an $100,000,
but this has been an existing project
that we have not been able to secure and
be able to procure.
We then have street improvements.
For the next fiscal year, they will be
counting with 25 million, but for the
next five years, they need 230 million.
So, how can we plan in in completing
this projects and how can we plan on
moving forward?
For example, the new project East Loman
Avenue widening, that's a huge project
that's coming up and the estimated cost
is 23 million. We recognize that our
city is growing. We recognize that we
want to keep um good care of our
buildings and take care of our streets
and roads. But how can we plan ahead on
the actual need to secure those
projects? This is a project to expand
the multimmoal capacity for East Lman
Avenue from I20 to Mesag Grande Drive.
So we know that's anticipated need and
also we recognize the cost of it which
is quite high.
Another example is for attainable
affordable housing. Next fiscal year
they will have 22 million from carryover
projects but they still need to secure
about 26 million. We know that housing
has been very uh active in securing um
housing opportunities and they have
multiple ongoing projects
but we still need to help them continue
moving forward and close out as many
projects as they have.
public facilities. The one we just
mentioned, they will have 19 million to
move forward with existing projects.
The unfunded needs for the next five
years go up to $317 million.
With that, we have many existing
projects that are multi-year project.
For example, the East Messa public
recurreational complex. We know that
project has been ongoing and we want to
close as many phases as we can but we
have to recognize that we need to phase
it out and move as uh as the funding is
allowed.
Public safety
in 2027 they'll have 18 million but for
the next 5 years they will need 28
million. Here, for example, we also
identify new project that just came up.
It could be a one-time one project for
500,000 downtown safety ballards. But
while it seems like something tangible
and easy to complete, we need to help
the department secure the funds to move
forward. So there's this constant
balance of how can we move forward
existing projects, how can we move
forward projects that have been um a
need for a while and suddenly uh or be
have become critical when our funding um
funding is limited.
Park improvements another example
the funded is 8 million with a need of
62 million. Here I highlighted the
playground renovations program. This is
a program that we know that year with
year they will need funding in order to
maintain all of the playgrounds across
the park system.
So this is one of those situations where
we know the need is there. They have a
plan. They have a system on how they
need to how frequent they need to
replace them. All they need is the
funding to move forward.
Uh so city council those are the the
highlights of the proposed fiscal budget
uh fiscal 27 CIP budget and the main
intent is again to identify and
recognize that our capital
infrastructure needs exceed our uh
capacity to fund them. Our next step is
once we have finalized the CIP, we will
continue to work with departments
directly to help them secure as many uh
funding opportunities as we can, which
includes funds, loans, grants at the
state and federal level. So, we're going
to continue to be very proactive, but uh
the main takeaway is to recognize that
our CIP includes a wide range of
projects, small projects, significant
projects, multi-year projects, one-time
projects.
Our funding is not enough to cover all
of those needs for the next five years.
And while five years seems like there's
plenty of time, we need to plan to
secure those uh right now. So we can
anticipate our um our needs for the next
uh couple of years. And lastly, I want
to also uh mention that some of the
projects have been on the CIP for a
while. And while we have not been able
to find a funding uh financial path for
them, they continue to be a priority and
they continue to be a need for the city.
So with that, council head mayor, I
stand up for any specific questions.
All right. Thank you, Cynthia. Councelor
Harris.
Um thank you, mayor. Thank you, Cynthia.
Um,
I guess mine is more of a a comment. Um,
but I guess am I right in saying that
roughly a quarter of the CIP is for
streets, street related projects sounds
like over the next five years. Um, 230
million plus 25 here and there. It's
about a quarter of a billion dollars.
So for the uh
mayor councelor Harry's for the next
fiscal year here we have the breakdown.
So right now the highest number of
projects it is in in public works.
Y
but right now it's uh street
reconstruction it's also a few traffic
caling issues like the hawk system. Mhm.
Um we also have um facilities recently
joined public works. So that has been
also part of that.
Uh and then but on the other hand you
see that the other department that has
the higher volume projects is utilities
and parks and wreck. But then when you
look at the value of those is kind of
proportionate. They could have a smaller
projects because some of them could be
public works also have the cheap seal
program which an annual one which is a
smaller one but then we hope go to the
other end with the street
reconstructions will be more
significant.
Okay. Um so actually since you skipped
this slide it reminded me of a a
question. Can you maybe it was on the
previous one on nine resiliency. What is
that between nonprofit and parks?
Yes, resiliency is a category where we
want to identify and recognize projects
that can help us once they're
implemented that can be sustainable by
themselves. So for example um let me
quickly note one project
right now resiliency does not have a lot
of projects.
So for example, we have the fleet
electric vehicle chargers
that will help us in the long term. We
also have a couple of drainage
infrastruct infrastructure improvement
projects and we also added the South
Fork Moreno water retention pond.
Cool. Um, yeah. So, I guess that's
that segus into kind of where I was
going is that when we're thinking about
these CIP projects, what I want to make
sure that we're we're thinking about is
the next five years, like when when we
build a capital thing, it costs money
now and it also costs money forever. Um,
so, you know, especially when we're
talking about widening Lmen, right?
Unless we're talking about widening it
to add a dedicated bus lane or something
in it. Um, you know, we're adding a
million dollars a mile per lane for any
street in maintenance. Um, so and and
those are recurring costs that just we
just have to keep paying. So if we keep
kind of doing,
we do need to think carefully as we
develop um about you know not just kind
of mindlessly doing the old model that
that cities have always done and Los
Cruus is definitely one of them of well
we've got more development over here so
we just need to add another lane to the
road or whatever. um because those
decisions are are very expensive. Um as
we as we put infrastructure on the
ground and in the ground,
they cost money forever. So, I just want
to make sure that we're thinking about
that and I appreciate the resiliency
projects a lot. So, thank you. That's
all I got.
Anyone else?
All right. Thank you, Cynthia. Um, we'll
go ahead and open it up now for public
hearing. Is there anyone in the audience
that would like to speak to this topic?
All right, seeing none. Thank you.
We'll go to the next item. 2.4. Natural
gas infrastructure in New Mexico and
existing development. We have Chris
Favor. Adrien Whitmer, Jenny Hernandez,
and Natalie Green.
Good afternoon, Mayor, City Council.
Chris Faver, uh, community development
director for the record. So staff
thought we would give council an update
on
um a few things specific to uh what code
says about natural gas, what um
utilities has some information to add.
Uh sustainability is going to talk a
little bit about some of their efforts
and then um housing will talk about some
of the impact um related to uh
affordable housing as we move forward.
So, we put a couple asks on the screen
uh for things, you know, direction from
council
um developers to continue installation
of electric and natural gas lines for
new commercial and residential
construction. That one speaks more to
code, which I'll get into in a minute.
Um and then utilities has a specific ask
related to um uh to complete natural gas
line extensions into service areas.
Okay. So, specifically chapter 37 um of
realize has what is called adequate
public facilities and that basically
outlines what the expectation is for
development to go in um based on the
development standards and so that's 37
uh chapter 37-4.
Additionally,
um the subdivider of any prop uh
approved subdivision shall be
responsible for all on and off-site
infrastructure utilities necessary for
filing the final plat. And then adequate
public facilities is defined under the
substantial completion section. Uh
substantial completion was a little bit
too large to put on one slide. So the
first the first section talks about
ensuring the health, safety and welfare
of residents and then specifically that
final plat will not be filed and permits
will not be issued until uh subdivision
has reached substantial completion which
is defined herein. And so specifically
it addresses the things that the city
and current code current code um calls
out which is complete roadways,
electrified light systems, water waste,
water, natural gas, energy drainage,
electric and n uh n natural gas utility
connections, parks and trails, retaining
structures, retaining walls, and any
off-site infrastructure improvement. So
that's currently what Los Cruis's code
says. So from here I'll turn it over to
utilities. Thank you.
Good afternoon mayor and counselors.
Adrien Woodmer the utilities director.
And on this first slide just wanted to
give you all a little bit of
information. You know for over 90 years
the city of Los Cruus has provided
natural gas to its customers. And
actually because it's an enterprise fund
and it has always been an enterprise
fund, it is those customers that have
actually provided the funding to build
the system
through here. And when we had our last
rate review, um, utilities had agreed
with the board and council not to fund
extensions unless, of course, it was to
increase efficiency or redundant
looping. And it's based on need.
That need could be anything as far as
adequate pressure or required um volume.
the energy decarbonization and
transition plan. It's to develop a
business model for services provided by
the natural gas and energy line of
business without having to lay off
employees. And as part of that, we're
dedicated to go ahead and work as hard
as we can to meet the goals that the
city has for greenhouse gas emissions.
But the need for natural gas for
utilities during power outages is
crucial for water and wastewater
infrastructure for emergency generator
generation.
And it'll be used that way until there's
another source that's dependable and
reliable and identified and actually put
in and cost effective.
In addition, as part of our uh
dedication in assisting in lowering the
greenhouse gas emissions,
utilities has devoted a lot of time and
effort in participating with
sustainability office and on its own for
putting in solar installations
which include the East Mesa Water
Reclamation Facility, the West Mesa
Industrial
and Innovation Park, including the plant
and the lift station there three wells
and our latest has been the covered
parking at the utilities main campus. So
we've completed one phase out of four
that are planned upon.
So our position regarding natural gas
services is to go ahead and continue to
follow the development code.
And in addition, we would like it where
approved subdivisions did not
disenfranchise
one utility user group over any other.
So what that essentially means it's
either all electric or it's all gas. not
all electric for one
user group and gas for another user
group. And with that, I will pass it on
to sustainability. Thank you.
Mayor Council Jenny Ernnandez,
sustainability officer. For the record,
um I want to preface by saying one,
happy Earth Month for those who um
celebrate. Two that in my presentation
I'm going to go over some of the policy
that has brought us to where we are
today. And that's to say that um some of
these conversations are hard and I want
to emphasize a little bit what Adrian
said is that utilities and
sustainability
there is push and pull with each of our
perspectives but we are trying very hard
to um find a path that
works for both of our goals. And so that
to say that they the energy transition
that they are taking on is a difficult
task and we have been pushing back but
they have been very receptive and open
to our feedback and comments. And so all
this to say is that we understand that
this is a difficult conversation. Um,
and I am hopeful that these in these
short slides that I will present that
you can see our effort where we're
trying to lead both collaboratively and
in partnership together. So this first
slide is to show that almost for 10
years we have set a precedent of certain
policies that push us towards
decarbonization. The first one is the
Paris agreement which was in 2017 and
this was a resolution signed that
allowed us to basically join the um
climate mayors. Climate mayors was a
network of um cities all across the
United States to try and see what the
realities would be to ma to meeting our
um agreement that we signed on to with
the Paris climate agreement to keeping
temperatures from rising below 1.5
degrees. And this really set a precedent
for we, the city of Los Cusus, to try to
start looking at how we can reduce our
greenhouse gas emissions. Then in 2018,
we passed a resolution called the
municipal clean energy goals, and this
was specifically to say that all city
buildings that used electricity would be
produced by solar and wind. And then in
2019, we um not we, the state
legislative passed a law for the New
Mexico Energy Transition Act. And this
specifically says that um investorowned
utilities such as El Paso Electric had
to have um had to start working towards
diversifying their portfolio through
renewable energy. And they have a goal
that um in 2030 their grid has to have a
diversity of um diverse portfolio of
renewable energy of 50% and 100% by
2030. In 2020, we um adopted Elevate Los
Cusus, which um Cynthia Almo talked
about previously, basically guides the
city's growth for the next 20 years, and
it is really the anchor of which all our
other policies live under. Shortly after
that, we brought forward a resolution to
adopt the climate action plan, which
allowed us to do a greenhouse gas
inventory that told us where most of our
emissions were coming from.
um and create a roadmap of how to reduce
our greenhouse gas emissions through
certain stat strategies and goals which
I'll go over in the next few slides. And
then after that, the city adopted a city
fleet transition to zero emissions
resolution in 2021, which was a um
it was a resolution that was EV first
policy adoption that said when
reasonably and able to, we should
transition our fleet to EVs. And that
was mainly because our greenhouse gas
emissions showed that transportation was
our biggest sector. And then as um
Adrian touched upon, the utilities
natural gas transition resolution was
also adopted in 2021, which set up
utilities to start their path towards um
understanding what it would look like to
start to decern the utilities. And then
in 2025, we not we the state adopted
their climate action plan. And so I
really want to put emphasis on this
because what that shows us is that um
Los Cusus for almost the past eight
years has really led on climate policy
when the state in barely 2025 last year
has adopted their climate action plan,
but ours was adopted in 20 um in 2019.
And so we are lead leading the way in a
lot of instances and um council should
feel very very proud of that. And I will
say that the New Mexico climate action
plan also has goals and strategies that
have um are aimed at uh decarbonizing
their building stock.
And so more specifically, what does
Elevate say as it relates to um some of
the things that we're talking about
today? Elevate again is our
comprehensive plan and under Elevate
there are 19 um actions that live under
three policies that basically elude and
lead us to transitioning um to renewable
energy. And so specifically you see some
of those examples, but again there are
uh 19 different actions under some of
these goals
specifically what does our climate
action plan say? So again our climate
action plan allowed us to do a
greenhouse gas inventory which looked at
all our emissions um within the city
limits and told us what what the biggest
things were. The first one is
transportation at 53%. The second
largest is buildings at 38%. And so it
created a path that um outlined how we
can reduce these pies so to speak. And
so the overall arching goals of the
climate action plan are to reduce our
greenhouse uh gas reductions by 19% by
2030 and 73% by 2050.
In 2024, um, Lotus, which helped us, is
the consultant who produced our climate
action plan, actually presented to give
an update on our greenhouse gas
inventory. And they found that because
of population growth, we had increased
our greenhouse gases substantially. that
we are currently off target to meeting
our 19% by 2030 which means that we have
narrowed our window to meeting that 73%
target by 2050. And so all this to say
which I think some of the um counselors
and some of the previous conversations
that we heard today alluded to is
basically any infrastructure that we put
in regardless of the fossil fuel type on
average their lifespan is 40 to 50
years. So just thinking about that in
terms of what our goals are and the
timeline for those goals.
So what does our current landscape look
like? I want to make very clear that the
policies I just went over do not call
for an immediate end to gas or any
fossil fuels. um it guides us to a
strategy to try and achieve those things
over a long time. And we as
sustainability in our office also
recognize that um it is a little bit
unrealistic to want to say by tomorrow
we have to be off fossil fuels. But in
our office through the work that we're
doing, we have come across some of the
challenges of of what that means and and
we're encountering those in the work
that we're doing now. So the first
challenge is retrofits. And when I say
retrofits, I'm talking about um
buildings and and residential homes um
and going in and repairing them.
Retrofits are challenging and they're
costly. Um
and
because of that it is actually really
important for us to consider um how our
decisions today will impact the work
that we have to add on to or do in the
future. The other reality is um grid
modernization is needed if we are
working towards decarbonization.
We have to have a key partnership with
El Paso Electric and we have to have
hard conversations and they have to be
our partners and we have to sit down and
be able to collaborate with them
together to understand what
decarbonization looks like for our city.
The other thing that we're seeing is
that the market, this is beyond and
outside Los Cusus, the market is moving
towards clean and efficient electric
technologies.
Um and we as as the market is moving it
puts you know um it it it makes some of
these technologies more accessible
because it drives down the pricing and
cost. However, are we there yet
tomorrow? No. which correlates to my
economics point is some of these things
are not accessible right now in terms of
affordability and we understand that and
we know that and at the state level
energy natural resources energy natural
resources and minerals department I
always mess up their name nerd um is
heavily subsidizing some of these
cleaner and more efficient technologies
because they know that they are not
accessible currently right Now, but what
that does is it provides us an
opportunity, us as a sustainability
office in other cities to try and find
ways that um we can offer those that
accessibility to everyone um so that
they stand on their own once the
subsidies end because at some point
those subsidies will end.
And so all this to say is that um that
was a lot of doom and gloom, but I want
to make very clear that um here's what
our future could look like if we
continue making an effort towards
decarbonization.
Um as utilities mentioned, they are
working on their decarbonization
transition plan that will help inform
the decision of the path that gets
outlined for us to work towards. I want
to emphasize a lot on this point that
what we have tasked utilities with doing
is very very hard. We are only one of
seven cities who is actively working
towards this. Again, we're we're leading
the way on this and it's very important
that sustainability and utilities
continue to collaborate on this. And
like I've mentioned, we we're asking
utilities really tough questions and
they have been open to it. Um and we're
trying to figure out how we move forward
with trying to achieve both goals. The
other um
thing that I want to say is that it's
also not only utilities role to um 100%
move us in that direction. There is a
role that sustainability plays and is
responsible for. And in that essence, we
are working on trying to find those
solutions to those barriers and
challenges. And so, for example, as I
mentioned on the previous slide, some of
these things are not accessible to
everyone. We are trying currently in our
office to find out how we can provide
alternative financing mechanisms. For
example, working with the green bank at
the state level to then be able to offer
these solutions in parallel to what
utilities is working on. So all of this
to say is that we understand that they
are tasked with something really hard
and it's also our job and our
responsibility as a sustainability
office to work in parallel and bring
solutions to um some of the challenges
that we're seeing as well. And the last
point I want to make is that um the
the state law with the state legisl
legislative um law for the energy
transition act as I mentioned requires
investor own utilities to diversify
their portfolio through renewable
energy.
This means that every home that
currently has electricity or will have
electricity in the future that as EPE
cleans up their grid, their home will be
powered by renewable energy. And so
today, what however we move forward with
setting up those those homes, they'll be
ready for us. Well, they'll be ready and
we won't have to do anything that they
are powered by clean and renewable
energy. And so um my final point is to
say that um we have an opportunity as
you saw on the first slide have led a
lot of this work um based in comparison
to other cities in the state that were
leading on a lot of this. And so I would
just say that we have a an opportunity
to continue that especially um you know
what seems as two opposing ideas with
utilities and sustainability. I think
that we're working together in
collaboration to prove that there is a
way for us to move forward um working on
this together that can help us lead the
change so to speak. And so, um, I'm
going to hand it over to Natalie who's
going to close off close us off with her
final slide.
Thank you, Jenny. Natalie Green, uh,
housing administrator for the record.
Um, so we just did a a comparison
between homes that have natural gas and
homes that are all electric. So, when we
have, um, natural gas in affordable
housing, especially if it's a new area,
that could result in increased
infrastructure costs. um if it's in the
infill then that infrastructure is
already in place. Um currently natural
gas is a lower monthly utility cost to
homeowners. Um it has been more reliable
and consistent and there is a benefit
for it being municipal a municipalowned
utility.
uh for all electric in new areas, it can
be lower infrastructure costs because
again, you're not putting in the uh gas
infrastructure.
In order for households to realize the
cost savings, uh there can be higher
upfront construction costs in order for
them to build to the efficiency needed
to capture all of those cost savings. Um
if those homes aren't built to those
efficiency standards, then they can
result in higher utility costs. And then
uh we have seen that it is dependent on
the grid and there can be some
performance variability especially in
the summer months um when we have some
of those rolling blackouts. Um so with
that uh you have your asks from staff
and we'll open it for discussion and
I'll call Chris back up.
All right. Thank you all for the
presentation. Any questions, comments?
Councelor Harris.
All right. I was going to go last, but I
got a lot. This is my thing. Um, so I
guess first I want to emphasize the
point that these these asks are not to
discontinue the gas utility in the
foreseeable future. Right,
Mr. Mayor, Councelor Harris, uh,
correct?
Yeah. I mean, as was mentioned in the
slide, infrastructure that we put in the
ground today has a 40 to 50 year
lifespan. We're going to have a gas
utility for 50 years probably, right?
We've had 97. So, um, nothing nothing uh
massive is going to change there
probably.
Um,
so
the the main thing that,
you know, I think we're here to talk
about is the whether for new
development. We want to continue to
force developers to put in natural gas
extensions into the into their
development even though the market
people who are buying the houses and as
in this case represented by the
developer who might think I can sell all
these houses and people will want to buy
them if they're all electric. Um so even
when the market has spoken the code says
that we must add natural gas lines that
will be that we have to maintain
eventually right um so I think so so I'm
I'm correct in that that's that's what
we're asking is like we're talking about
maybe going and either providing
waiverss which I understand we've done
in the past to developers who don't want
to put in gas um or amending ing the you
know directing you all to maybe amend
the code.
Mr. Mayor, councelor Harris. Yeah, I
guess that that that's correct.
Okay. Um All right. So, um you know, I I
think
it's a pretty much a no-brainer at this
point that in this point in history that
it does not make sense to extend natural
gas infrastructure beyond what we've
already got. We have a pretty vast
system. It works pretty well. The people
who maintain it do an excellent job at
maintaining it. Um, we have to fight
outside people who uh damage it, which
is another item I'll bring up later. Um,
they've done an excellent job keeping
everybody safe in in those regards. Um,
but you know, the the tide the
technological tide has turned and
there's it just doesn't
It just doesn't make economic sense to
build a new house with gas utilities. I
mean, personally, it at this point, it's
a personal choice. Um, if you really
really want a gas stove, and I like my
gas stove. It's fun to cook on. Um, but
I pay an enormous premium in utility
cost to have that luxury. Um,
you know, I there's a little everybody
has a little handout that I prepared
last night. um a little late last night,
but I you I I try to run these numbers
to kind of remind myself of this. And um
what I did last night is just kind of
look at the costs of water heating in
particular because that's the only thing
you use gas for year round. Um this
month's this year's heating season was
incredibly short. Next year's is going
to be shorter. Maybe we won't ever have
a heating season after that. um which is
unfortunate for you know the under
that's the underlying problem. Um but
you know we we have we're at this point
in technology and worldwide where the
cheapest and the most accessible frankly
um way to to build a new place um is is
to do it with electric um utilities um
with electric appliances. So, I can go
into that much more if there's
discussion that we want to have there,
but but I, you know, maybe the upfront
cost is a little higher, but the upfront
cost of the latest in gas appliances is
even higher. Um, and the latest houses
that were built, one that a a family
member just moved into, they have
condensing gas water heaters in them.
Um, which is the the latest and greatest
technology. The developer, I think, did
a great job. Since they have gas, they
put in what would be the most the
highest end and least expensive to run
um appliances in there and
they're less than half as efficient
actually sorry they're four times less
efficient to run than an equivalently
priced electric water heater um that
uses all the modern technology. So, you
know, I I think the tide has turned.
Developers are starting to see that this
is not an economically useful thing to
put in. It's very expensive to add the
lines. That passes the costs on to
homeowners.
If the cost to run a gas line per into a
new development per house is 3,000 bucks
or 4,000 or 5,000, whatever it is, you
can just take that and put it into the
slightly higher upfront costs of the
electric appliances and
then you're done forever. Um it's also
worth noting that um you know the
industrial uses we do have a new tenant
in the industrial park who's using gas
which is fine that's not a new gas line
like that's using infrastructure we
already have leveraging the the um the
investments we've already made fine for
an industrial use I think they would
based on what they're doing they would
have a really hard time doing that job
with with electric furnaces
Um, but any residence has a really easy
time heating and cooking
and heating water with with electricity.
Um, so that's that's kind of my thought
in a in a nutshell. Um, and part of when
I was, you know, running these numbers
and I was using my own electricity
bills, um, and and gas bills, one thing
that I noticed, and I was actually s I
knew this just kind of vaguely, but when
I actually did it, I was actually
surprised at how much the cost of the
gas infrastructure actually dominates
the cost. Um,
since you're you're not heating year
round here or even for a very long
season, um, the majority of the cost of
my gas service is paying to keep the
pipes in the ground
maintained. Um, it's it's the access fee
and it's the access fee, which is what
you pay. Um
so you know the the usage costs are
really coming down and
if we were having this conversation 20
years ago it would be completely
different but um you know the technolog
is there and I think this is the path
forward. So
open to a lot more to questions if
there's more. Council Matise.
Uh I'm going to start out maybe with all
this AIA information that I gathered and
then I'll just go to why I think we
probably have to have a gas electric all
all the energy sources. But I found out
that traditional sources of electricity
for example uh to provide the electric
power your energy loss using natural gas
is uh electricity generated is only 44%.
Using coal again electricity generated
32%
and using nuclear energy actually
generated 33%. So again the electric
company u uses quite and waste a lot of
energy to provide that electric source
whether it's to homes or to a company in
the industrial part. Uh my other
discussion
maybe Adrian can answer this. How much
of the enterprise fund actually supports
the general fund? Do we have a number on
that?
Uh, thank you for the question. Uh,
Mayor Councelor Matise, I can't tell you
specifically what gas itself is paying.
I know in
the franchise fees it's been it's almost
$400,000. Last year it was $400,000.
So, as the utility grows, the franchise
fees will go up. If the business um
dwindles then obviously the franchise
fees will go down and amongst with that
there's there's other fees like for
instance um gas pays um taxes and pilt
as well.
Okay. Uh and I Natalie I appreciate your
page 15. it seems like natural gas uh is
more reliable and and consistent uh
compared to electric utilities. So, I
appreciate that. And and what what I'm
trying to get at is when we build these
homes, I'd like to see the city of Los
Cusus, the residents have a choice. So,
I'd like to see those lines available so
that if they choose electricity, fine.
if they choose solar or the nitrogen
cells or or natural gas. And so that's
what I'd like to see is that the
enterprise fund, particularly our our
utility
uh enterprise has both uh
all the components that they have right
now, gas, water, waste water, and and
trash. So I I I would not like to see
that if we just discontinue laying lines
in every subdivision that we build in
the future. We know what the outcome of
a business is when it doesn't grow.
If it doesn't grow, it dies. So I I like
to see that be available. Thank you,
Council Pr.
Thanks. Um, thank you for this
presentation and for all of your inputs.
I um just want to bring up a couple of
things first from the district where the
uh
electric all electric homes are selling
like hotcakes. um like there are many
market-based things that we could talk
about but I don't think those are
necessarily
something that we should discuss
although they electricity of course
would win in all of those domains as
well but um I think my understanding
when I joined council there were a
number of discussions about whether or
not we were going to continue new
electric gas lines and whether we would
take on debt related to those that new
infrastructure and it was a really clear
consensus uh a number of times on
council that that's the way that we were
going is not to require uh new electric
gas lines and in fact to emphasize
choice of folks who are developing areas
to be able to not put down gas
infrastructure and my sense is that's
still the the consensus of council. just
think if we need to bring a resolution
forward to make that really clear. I
mean, that consensus has existed for uh
my five years on council and I think
several years before that, but um
uh I don't know if if it's necessary
that we
have new ordinances related to to this
that we need to vote on or if we just
need to reup that. That that is not the
intention of of us. And the energy
transition plan, I understand that it's
underway, but that's I think the
transition is away from gas, right?
That's implied in the in the energy
transition plan that we uh have been
working on for some time. So, I think
that that's part of this conversation.
I'm hap I'll be happy when that comes
forward and we have more formal things.
But in the meantime, I I understand the
consensus of of council throughout um
the past however many years as uh we
don't want to require natural gas lines
especially for uh new developments. So
new infrastructure just as a note just
gas rehab in the CIP unfunded CIP years
2.8 million per year is is gas rehab. So
this would add however much that would
add to that um proportionally over time
we can imagine the degradation of the
assets that are not being used um as
only increasing. So, I just
hope we can either move forward just so
that everyone's clear that that's that
requirement I think I don't I think we
understand that requirement to be
something that developers don't have to
uh add add gas lines but I'm I'm happy
to bring it forward as a resolution to I
would happy to be seeing that as a
resolution and um I think it would be a
good step that then would the energy
that part of the energy transition plan
doesn't have to be debated any further.
That's all.
Council combo.
Thanks, Mayor. Yeah, I have to say that
I'm pretty disappointed we're having
this conversation. Uh to be very frank,
I think the consensus has ex existed for
some time and
um the energy transition plan, which
while many folks freak out about it
because it's potentially implying that
we're getting rid of a natural gas line,
that is not true whatsoever.
And I think what disappointing to me
about that is that we are in a time
frame where that is almost ready to be
finished. And I would love to see uh
what that will yield, what kind of
information that will yield for the
health for the health safety or not only
our gas utility line as a business, but
for the health and safety of our
community, particularly low-income
people. And we could talk about markets.
We could talk about that. I you know I
I'm not even going to talk about because
I think this particular slide actually
is missing a whole all kinds of
information like for example the like
large disparities in in health outcomes
in in low-income neighborhoods because
of natural gas. Also the consistency I
would argue is not actually real. A few
years ago, people in our community had
insane gas bills because a pipeline
broke um in eastern New Mexico and that
uh increased the um the pressure to the
natural gas lines we had. Um not to
mention, you know, uh Storm Yuri, all of
these things that I don't actually
believe um make natural gas reliable or
consistent.
Um, so I I I also I also find it odd
that we're talking about new
subdivisions. If a new subdivision is
all electric and you are someone who is
trying to go buy a house, you have a
choice not to buy that home. Just like
you have a choice not to buy that home
because it's not near a park or
wherever, whatever reason. But it
doesn't seem like a lot of people are
not buying those homes. seems like a lot
of people are buying those homes um
which they had a choice to uh whether
they bought it or not given that it was
they were all electric homes. So I I
also know that the natural the our gas
on all of our line items and Adrian
correct me if I'm wrong all of our
utility line items are budgeted to
maximum capacity right so like we have
to on any given day we have to make sure
that we can provide that natural gas
that water whatever to the peak to the
peak level correct
Mr. Mayor, councelor Ben Como. Um,
that's a really good question. It
depends. So, yes and no. Um, we have
someone, uh, Mario Quentez, our gas
system analyst, and he looks at what the
future is going to look like, and he
orders gas for that, which has a
completely different graph um,
dimension, uh, which is, um, opposite of
water. So, in the winter it's high, in
the summer it's low. And so that has
been consistent. Um when there are weird
things that happen like that you brought
up, Yuri or the line break, those
particular things, it does make it um a
little temporarily more expensive. Um
but the the demand itself is is very
reasonable and that's why we hedge a
certain amount within the system that we
say we're going to buy it whether we use
it or not.
Yeah. I think the since I've been on the
utilities, that's been my understanding
that we plan for peak level usage on any
of the line items. So the more we build,
the more we will have to live up to that
peak.
Meanwhile though, as the market says,
gas is dwindling. More people who can
afford it are moving off of gas utility
and towards electric. And if we continue
to build towards and budget towards
meeting that peak of the gas utility,
the less people that are off of it, the
people who cannot um afford to get off
of gas utility will have to bear the
burden of the cost of maintaining a gas
utility. We know those things to be true
in fact. So I I think even, you know, I
also love my gas stove. I've talked
about this forever. I love my gas stove.
Pry it out of my dead cold hands. Um but
the reality is that um we are moving
towards this isn't about today. This
isn't about just today. This is about
the future about future generations 10
20 30 50 years from now and what's
what's the kind of infrastructure that
we're leaving them and what are we
building towards and I think to me this
is a matter of responsibility not just
um whether someone has an option or not
to to hook up to electric or gas and if
developers are saying it's worth it to
build all electric subdivisions I think
we need to make sure that we continue to
respect that.
Thanks.
All right. Thanks, Chris. Can you get to
the last slide? I think that's basically
the question you're asking.
Yeah. I um
like what we why we're here is because
uh in the past there was consensus. I
don't say that I totally agree with with
that and moving forward. So, so coming
to this is because there's a lot of
questions and concerns, uh, a lot of
builders, is it gas, is it electric? And
we're not clear. So, what we want is a
clarity. Uh, I'm in favor of the first
one is changing the code and leave it up
to the developer. They can decide
whether they want gas or they want
electricity, whatever they decide. And
that's it. When it comes to the
extension,
honestly, uh I would look at
saying we we need to serve our customers
that uh want gas and to extend those
lines. But at the same time, earlier we
just had our presentation with looking
at the option of vacancies and u
operations. So, if that's something that
we don't want to go in the direction of
extending the gas, then that's something
maybe we should sell it off to a
private. I know there's been a private
company that has been interested for two
years now. And why we're here today is
because what I heard was utilities was
uh the board had hired a consultant and
the consultant was going to come and
give us the pros and cons to gas,
electric or what direction we should go
and here we are months later and no
results from that. I don't I don't even
know where that uh consultant
presentation is at. So that's why we
need to have that clarity is like how
are we going to move forward and I would
be in favor of having the option and I
bring another option to the table if
we're not going to extend the gas that
could cut some down on some of our
operating costs and we just sell it and
let a private handle the gas. So that
that would be what I would be looking
at. Uh I know this is also for public
hearing and I know Mr. Mscato had asked
for some time. Go ahead Chris. Mr.
Mayor, Council, if I could just make one
comment. Um, so if if we're having a
discussion about potentially changing
the language of code, um, I I would
point out a couple of things. One, under
the language here, it says if applicable
to the development, which I think gives
us some latitude to determine which
development some of these standards
would apply to. The other thing I did
want to bring up is there's a connection
between the adequate public facilities
and some of the new zoning that came
through with real life. So specifically
if you're zoning in the say the NH3
which is more higher density and also
has larger commercial capacity
if you eliminate say you know the gas
into NH3 areas and potentially you could
limit some of the commercial development
that may depend on that gas utility for
their operations. And so if we're going
to have that discussion, I would say uh
maybe we have that discussion as it
relates to say maybe NH1 where it's, you
know, primarily going to just be single
family homes. It there is still some
commercial development that can go in
there as well, maybe not as impactful,
but the larger you get with NH2, NH3,
you're going to see your larger
commercial development and not having
that option could be an issue. So if
you're going in and say you're zoning
new areas, say all NH2 or NH3, those
decisions of the infrastructure could
eventually have impacts on the
commercial development that could happen
down the road. So I would say maybe we
look at limiting specifically where
we're wanting to have limitations on
natural gas only um specifically to some
of those higher NH2 and NH3 zonings.
Thank you.
Oh, thank you Chris. That's a good point
because one of those also for us is our
industrial park in that area. We we we
have an abundance of gas and we're
limited electricity. So we we've we've
got to we've got to work that out as
well, but giving the developers that
option in certain areas for sure.
U Councelor Harris.
Um no, thank thanks. That's what I was
going to say is I think we're I think
the consensus is that we want to give
developers the choice um and not not
force people to put in stuff that they
don't want to or that they don't think
is that the market's not going to bear.
Um so yeah, I agree.
Okay. So I was corrected. This is not a
public hearing. I just got used to
saying that. But uh there is an
opportunity for public participation and
uh Mr. Mscato had reached out to me. So
if you want to come forward and we'll
give you about four minutes to discuss
as a developer.
Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Mayor and
Council. Uh five years ago, the
Metroverie development
um came forward with an amendment to
their concept plan. And one of the major
public benefits in that document was
going all electric for development in
that remaining thousand plus acres.
Since then, there's been more than a
thousand home sites developed, hundreds
of homes, all electric.
None of those home buyers has been
disenfranchised.
That's that's a silly comment. They have
chosen to buy all electric homes. They
had options throughout the city.
Thousands of homes are sold every year.
All these home buyers had the
opportunity to choose
all electric or a home with natural gas.
They chose all electric. I think that's
a
path forward for the city that is
reasonable. So people have a choice as
to code
this section not notwithstanding what
Mr. favor said about the development
code substantial completion. Substantial
completion refers to completing the
permitted construction drawings for that
particular development. If the
construction drawings don't include gas,
then substantial completion does not
pertain to gas. That's that's that's
very clear from the wording of the code
itself. There's also a section
in, excuse me while I read. There's also
a section in
34.4
B which specifically discusses adequate
public improvements required. And you
can look at that list. It includes
water, wastewater, roadway, streets,
everything. No mention of gas whatsoever
in the particular section that pertains
to adequate public improvements
required.
That was passed by this council less
than a year ago. Why would you change
that now?
Also, this council recently approved the
technical manuals. In the technical
manual under utility improvements,
utility improvements, it says
specifically gas. If the subdivider
desires to install a natural gas system
within the subdivision, the system must
meet or exceed city specifications if
the developer chooses. So why would this
would this council even consider taking
a step backward and do exactly the
opposite of what has been the successful
pattern of development and home
building. And then you have the issue of
affordability. You know there was a
slide that said well it's higher
infrastructure. It's much higher
infrastructure costs. You're looking at
three, four, $5,000
per home because of installing natural
gas. That increase prices significant
number of home buyers out of the market.
It makes home affordability more
difficult. It makes home attainability
more difficult. We have an upcoming
development called Mesa Vista, which we
will be bringing forward to council in
the near future. We've been working with
the land office to meet an affordable,
attainable housing commitment. That
commitment is going to be much more
difficult to achieve with increased
development costs, increased housing
costs because it's not just the
developer, it's the developer passes it
along to the home builder, the home
builder passes it on to the home buyer.
So, it's it's it's across the board
increases and I don't see why council
would take a step backward at this
point, especially given the fact that I
think if you read the code correctly,
you'll understand that there really
doesn't need to be any change in code.
You simply need to follow the code as
it's written. Thank you.
Thank you. Um yeah, one second. Um
our city attorney would like to chime
in. Go ahead. Thank you, Mayor Brad
Douglas for the record. And so,
um how do I say this? I think I would
say I agree and disagree with Mr.
Mscato's reading and interpretation of
the code is currently written. uh
because portions of chapter 37 which I I
see that you have reviewed carefully uh
refer to natural gas utility whereas
other portions of the code refer to and
I should have brought my reading glasses
um essential public improvements and
services and then there's an earlier uh
references to a different part of the
code there's a referral to chapter 38
which is not helpful because it simply
refers you back to chapter 37 and so I
think what I would recommend at this
time subject subject to change is simply
to clean up that code and make it
consistent and easier to understand
because um I'm not embarrassed to say
that uh I'm the third attorney in my
office that reviewed the code and uh we
did read what you read um and so for
consistencyy's sake, for clarity sake, I
think I would recommend modification of
the code to be consistent.
Thank you. Thank you.
Yeah. Is there anyone else from public?
Yes. Come on up. We'll give you a couple
of minutes.
Hi, my name is Don Curts. I live on
Missouri Avenue. And just on the point
of confusion that you're talking about,
if the confusion is resolved, I think
what I hear the council saying is that
it needs to be resolved in terms of
giving developers the right to choose
which they use. If we didn't, and I
asked this question of AI just today,
chat GPT, we would be the only city in
the country that they could find that
had that kind of rule requiring natural
gas. It simply isn't the way this is
handled throughout the country.
Um
second uh councelor Matise mentioned
that the importance of the contribution
of utilities to the to the general fund.
That cannot be the reason we keep our
utilities going and make people use gas
is because it helps the general fund. We
should just go directly to that. Um and
this idea of reliability, I just want to
mention this because it's a it's a
misconception. People imagine that if
the if the electricity goes out, they'll
still be sitting in their with their
furnace and everything. No, because the
electricity runs the furnace, the HVAC
system, etc. So, it's really not a
backup. It's like belt and suspenders
and the suspenders cost you hundreds and
hundreds of thousands of dollars and
don't even work, right? So, once
electricity goes down, the gas is
essentially gone. too, unless you're
talking about huddling around the oven.
And so, uh, I think the final thing I'd
like to say is the counselors and the
mayor, I I would hesitate to put my full
confidence in the energy transition
planning that is being done in the
utilities right now because the if the
pres the there's a lot of difficulty
with that plan and it has explicitly not
addressed the problem of diminishing
gas. It's doing it's addressed
everything but that and I think you need
to pay real attention
to that. And at any rate I would not put
my faith in that. I would use your own
good judgment and with that is just
information that that you could use.
Thanks.
Is it okay?
One minute. One minute. Okay. I can I
can talk fast. Mayor Mayor, uh, thank
you for having me. Council, uh, Rico
Gonzalez with El Paso Electric. Just a
couple points of clarification on on
what was stated. We have not had a
controlled outage in decades or a or a
blackout or brown out. Um, we are in
Texas and in New Mexico either one or
two in most reliable utilities. Um, we
work both well with Adrian and Jenny in
terms of the context of this
conversation today. um programs that are
moving forward. In our current rate
case, we have new rate design programs
for lowinccome credits for electricity.
We have a a large load credit or a large
load tariff that would allow for for if
a large load came into the city that it
would be paid for by that large load. Uh
we have um uh a plan to phase in any
rate increases if we if we see them. Uh
we also have a whole house rate for EV
owners, meaning that if they have an EV,
they get a discounted rate on the off
peak times. Um we have time of use
rates. Um, in terms of economic
development, we do have plans for
building a new 45 345 KV line from Afton
to airport sub. And anytime we want to
get going on building that AOYO to
airport, um, I'll be the first one
buying the t-shirt and knocking on the
doors. Um, inside of our integrated
resource plan, we have some very
innovative demand side resource programs
that are that are already in Texas.
Little bit easier to do stuff in Texas,
but we're bringing them here to New
Mexico. And then our advanced meters
allow for us to respond earlier to
outages, uh, turning on and off energy
and and allows, I think, a very
important conversation that that people
have with their own electric use. Um,
couple other points here, but not
important. Go ahead. Okay. Um,
yeah, go ahead.
Uh, to the line losses, I'm going to
check on that. Um, but we are right now
at over 70% carbon-f free energy in in
Los Cusus. You're using every single
time you flip on a light, it's it's uh
over 70% clean energy. Uh, that's from
nuclear and from renewable. Um and um
and as we grow these these uh all
electric homes, we really do at El Paso
Electric want to start diversifying how
people are using energy, their own
relationships with energy, moving people
over to non- peak hours, getting off the
peak. And um with that, I just want to
say um thank you for the time.
Thank you, Mico. Yeah, come on up.
Mr. Mayor, excuse me, counselors. My
name is Leslie Graham. I'm the general
manager for Zia Natural Gas, and I just
wanted to come speak in favor of natural
gas. We have a vested interest
throughout the state to make sure that
people understand what a great product
this is to use. Um, it really is truly
the most efficient way to burn energy
within your home. You do receive uh
significant line losses burning natural
gas in the power plants. I was amazed
just listening just a few months ago at
the Project Jupiter presentation where
we're going to have to bring on several
natural gas power plants just to to um
power that project. Um why not use
natural gas in the home? you can um you
have to burn three times as much in the
power plant versus what you have to burn
in the home in order to get um the same
amount of energy use.
It is also a cheap option and it's
there. We don't have rolling blackouts.
Uh Rico just spoke to this, but we don't
have rolling blackouts. We have natural
gas there. It's always there. Um I also
want to point out u it was an
interesting um uh comment but we we get
feedback at Zeia Natural Gas about
developers being frustrated because they
can't get natural gas within um their
subdivisions and so they are going to
electric because they're struggling to
get it hooked up. I am not here to I
work well with the city and the city's
done a great job and so I know that
they're working hard but I know that
they're also frustrated trying to figure
out how to expand natural gas into
different subdivisions. And so I do want
to say that um developers are getting
fairly frustrated and turning to all
electric in order to get their projects
finished. And so it may not always be
that that's what people want. That's
just what they're getting. Finally, I do
believe as a citizen that people should
have that choice. And so I do want to
continue to encourage you to fund, to
look at, and to work with natural gas.
Mayors, counselors, thank you so much
for your time,
Council K.
So, I just want to clarify. I I think
we've talked about consensus if we have
it or not. Um to Brad's point,
clarifying the code to make it optional
so that people building new arterials
and new developments have the option to
not uh extend gas lines to that area. I
I would just ask I mean unless you have
a sense of the consensus, I just want to
make sure that we're clear on the
majority of council's sort of
orientation here. So, I'm hoping that we
can make clarify as Brad suggested and
bring it forward as a new resolution um
to make sure that the code allows the
option.
Council Harris.
Um yes, that's that's my thought. So,
I'll I'll add that I I agree. Um sounds
like from Mr. From Mscato's point of
view, the code does say that and does
give the option, but it sounds like
there is maybe some ambiguity in the
wording and so we want to make sure that
that ambiguity is resolved.
Okay. Well, I think we're clear on the
code, but as far as extending or what
was the second question is kind of like
what what are we going to do with that
really is is really the question for I
believe this council
council
go ahead Adrian
one of the reason um that has been
brought up because our service area. If
you go back to the very first of the
that one here, that's our service area.
That's way bigger than the city of Los
Cruus. And so we have had people that
are just north of town off of um El
Camino Rial uh requesting natural gas.
And so essentially, we've told each one
of those if you want natural gas and you
all need to get together and you need to
give us some money. That's a that's a
low to moderate income area. it is
outside of the city limits. Uh right now
they are on propane which is extremely
expensive. In addition to that um I
think that's where we get a little
confused because our service area is so
large
um when it comes to extensions. It is up
to whoever wants the extension to go
ahead and um and pay that bill. And we
do have some they come in, they say we
want the natural gas and we will take a
look at it and we will tell them how
much it'll cost to go ahead and extend
that that line. They say okay and we'll
extend the line. So just to make that as
a clarification that um
we're a regional provider, not just a
city of Los Cusus provider. Thank you.
Thank you Adrian Council. Um, thank you
and thank you for that clarification
because
as far as I'm concerned, if someone
wants to pay the cost that it costs,
they could get it. Um, it it doesn't
compute to me that anyone would actually
do that outside of a large industrial
user because if they're going to pay
the enormous expense to get a natural
gas line extended to their location,
depending on how far it is, uh, they
could just just get the latest and
greatest fanciest electric heat pumps
and never worry about it again. Um, but
I'm I'm not opposed to if someone wants
to pay the full cost, that's fine, but I
don't think it's appropriate for the
city to subsidize that in any way or go
into debt for it um or or expect
existing rate payers to subsidize it
either.
Council Matise.
Yes, M. Whidner. Adrian, I I think you
have the same circumstances if I'm not
mistaken. You have a few users that are
just paying for the insulation and the
natural gas. Even in Tel Aira, I don't
know how many people, but I know it's a
small number, but they've made the
choice that they want natural gas and
you provided the service.
Mr. Mayor, councelor Matise, yes. Uh
people in the Tala area have reached out
and they are requesting natural gas and
we tell them how much it's going to cost
to extend the line to their property and
they have installed it and then we
provide we provide the service.
Thank you. And you provide the natural
gas I mean you distribute the natural
gas to Picacho Hills as well. Correct.
That's that's our gas and and you you
make some pennies
on providing that, right?
Uh Mayor, uh councelor Matise, actually
we have an agreement with Zia Natural
Gas and they have areas that um we are
we transport their gas to them and we
charge them for that. We do not sell
them the gas. We transport it to
No. And that's excellent. That's what an
enterprise system is all about. and you
provide and that's my point today. What
I'm trying to say is that if people want
a choice and they need it u if they want
to move into a certain area uh they
still are disenfranchised if they want a
mountain view and basically what Mr.
Mscato says well go get a house
somewhere else but not in this area. So
there I'd like to see it available 100%
for people to choose where they want to
live, how they want to live, whether
they want a gas oven and they want those
mountain views and they want to live in
Metrover Metro Vista. And that and
that's what I'd like to see. I I would
just like to see government not be so
determined on on what and what you
cannot have. I mean, I I think people
need the right to have your full
service. Thank you,
Councilman Cobble. That's that's what
realize was. So, I think that, you know,
that's an important um note to make
about uh the importance of realize. I'm
curious about extensions right now. Who
are like what are the requests for
extensions?
Councelor Matise, Councelor Bencomo,
that's an excellent choice. If someone
comes in and they say that they want to
have gas, um, we're essentially telling
them, well, you front the money,
right? Who is ask right now? Who is ask
like how many requests are
Oh my gosh. Um, over the last few years,
we've had quite a few. I can certainly
get those statistics for you.
Yeah, I would I would like to see that.
Like what what are the where are the
requests coming from? Are they coming
from new subdivisions?
Um, I think the major well, we've had a
few in in the new subdivisions that are
all electric and I can ask staff if
they've kept track of that. Um, I don't
know that they're keeping those
statistics. Um, but I said that was
probably a good thing for us to start
counting. Um, I know that we we have had
some in the all electric areas that
they're wondering, well, why can't I get
natural gas?
Yeah.
U, we've had developers uh bring that up
as well. Um, I can ask staff to come up
with the with the list on uh on the
statistics on that if you would like.
Right now, if a new subdivision
if someone submits for a new subdivision
and they say, "I want to build for
both." They just they're that good. They
want to do both. Are they able to?
Mr. Mayor, councelor Beno, you mean both
as in
offer either
gas and electric? Yeah,
certainly
they can.
You mean like provide both? Is that what
you're saying? Yeah, they can.
So, right now, if a new subdivision
wants to provide natural gas, they're
able to.
Correct.
Okay. Okay. Just Someone said people are
developers are having a hard time. I'm
not sure why that would be. If the issue
here is communication, then we should
get better at that, communicating
people's options. And also, you know, I
don't know, obvious like maybe we should
communicate to realtors about, you know,
ensuring that when they're selling a
home, they're telling people this is
this is the option here so that you can
you have consent to choose whether you
want to buy that home or not. I think my
thing about with extensions and having,
you know, us sort of build out
extensions every time someone requests
it is that if that person isn't paying
isn't able isn't paying for that, then
the rest of the customer base has to
subsidize it. And I don't know who paid
for the Tala extensions.
Actually, um, everybody did. We did. We
went and we, um,
obtained bonds to actually do that. And
that was after a majority of that
subdivision supposedly wanted it.
And arguably, Tala Vera, I wouldn't say
I wouldn't consider low to medium uh
income level. So
that's true.
So I I think there's serious equities
issues when it comes to that that we
need to consider in the long term. And
so yeah, I I think the extension to me
is feels a lot more complicated. And if
there is confusion out there about what
new subdivisions and developers can do
or not, we need to get clear on that. In
fact, I think government forcing
developers to provide gas lines is quite
the opposite of what uh my colleague
here is saying. So I think um it seems
like we need to just clarify that
developers have the option to build
whatever kind of energy they want to
use. And with extension, I think I'm
personally opposed to that, but um it
seems like perhaps we need more
information to u make those decisions. I
don't think um those decisions should be
made so flippantly. I think that's those
are really long-term conversations to be
having.
Um and I'm thinking uh Mayor Councelor
Beno, there may be a little confusion on
the distinction between a developer and
a developer. So, a developer of a
subdivision builds all the
infrastructure,
they sell lots, and then a builder comes
and builds. And it's the builders that
have been complaining to to us, not the
act the developer because the developer
builds it and then
sells the lots.
And a builder is the one that actually,
hey, I'm selling a lot. You want to
build a house? And so there's
mean the code doesn't apply differently
to developers and builders, right?
Well, there's um do you want to explain
how developments
Mr. Mayor, councelor Bencom, I think
what Adrian's trying to say is once a
developer's come in and develop an area
and now starts and and gone with maybe
one say just electric only in this
example that when the home builders come
in to actually build homes to sell out
at that point in time if that
infrastructure doesn't exist they're
limited to just building an electric
home. So I think that's what and we
we've heard that before. So the
distinction is between a home builder
and the developer who's developing the
actual subdivision. So
councelor Harris,
um but that I mean to me that
disagreement sounds like something
that's between the builders and the
developers.
Just just throwing it out there.
Right. And I believe that's what uh Mr.
Douglas was saying was clean it up so
that there is no confusion there. So I
think we're all in consensus with that
with the extension. I I think it's what
Adrian has said. If they're willing to
pay for it, then that that's where I'm
at on that with if if they want that. I
don't know if we need to go further or
bring up more uh work sessions or data.
I'm I'm still Does anybody know on that
consultant that was going to come in
with a study?
Uh, mayor, thank you for the question.
We are expecting them to be um done
sometime in July. We'll find out what
they what they say. And as part of that
is they're looking for us to transition
off of natural gas into a different
business model so that we don't fire all
of our employees or lay them off. We
teach them new skills and they provide
some kind of service whether it's uh
with renewable natural gas or um solar.
That's one of the things that they're
looking at is to come up with different
uh business models to actually take a
look at it and how to transition the
natural gas
and energy line of business into a
different business model which would be
multiple types of potential energy uses.
Okay. Thanks.
Thank you.
Well, I guess we'll see that when it
comes at that time and they can present
and we can go from there. But definitely
cleaned up for sure. Go ahead, Chris.
Mr. Mayor. So, just to clarify a couple
points, you know, I don't think we would
do this via resolution. I think we would
just come back with a cleanup of the
code. So, that would be an ordinance. We
could potentially do another work
session if you want to have, you know,
more conversation about it. My question
leaving here would simply be, are we
looking at making that an option across
all residential zoning? So NH1, NH2, NH3
are only specific to your lower
densities that are going to be primarily
single family homes. So that would be
that would be helpful to know so we
could figure out how to make that
adjustment into the code.
I would be in favor of not uh limiting
ourselves with the commercial.
Council Harris. Um,
yeah. I
I guess thinking about the types of
businesses that would be limited and
coming in there, you're probably really
only talking about restaurants.
Uh, Mr. Mayor, Council Harris, not
necessarily. I mean, I I think there
could be a variety of commercial that
could probably need to have access to
natural gas. Um, and you know, depending
heating maybe.
Yeah, potentially. or or other things
they may they may need it for within
within their store. So
I I would just given given the way that
we updated the zoning and and really
tried to integrate commercial and
residential into those same zoning
types,
I would be very hesitant to just come
out and say something that 10 years down
the road we may have eliminated the
potential for certain types of
commercial because we didn't have that
infrastructure installed at the
beginning. So, if it's a conversation
about primarily single family
neighborhoods, your NH1s, that that
would be fine. But I think NH2 and above
starts to be a little limiting when we
look at commercial development down the
road. And you know, as we you know, if
you think back to when Sonoma Ranch was
put in and and you know, the the housing
came in first and now we're 25 years on
and we're starting to see that
commercial really come in. You could see
a similar situation in some of these
other areas where the commercial
wouldn't come in until the residential
was there to support it. But if the
infrastructure is not there to support
the commercial, I I just don't know what
that situation could look like 25 years
from now.
Yeah. I mean, it's hard to say. In 25
years,
you probably won't have restaurants
cooking on gas, honestly, um with the
way that technology is going. Um
but um
yeah, I mean I think the the code change
that we're talking about is just to give
developers flexibility and if
developers are predicting that in this
lot people probably won't ever want gas
and I'll be able to sell the the lots on
later without that um that we shouldn't
limit them.
I I I'm in favor of flexibility for
developers. Um
I guess and I I don't want to limit our
commercial choices either, but um
I don't see how we would be
terribly by just making it flexible.
I agree. I think any zoning class should
have the option. So to not have
including
any
mixed use up to up through NH3. So I I
would say no. I think
if we already have hundreds of vacant
commercial buildings that I'm sure have
gas. So that's clearly not the variable
that makes a difference in whether or
not someone goes in a commercial space
from what I can tell. Um, so I would
hope I would think that that's not
something that would limit commercial
development. So I would I would say
in any NH1 through NH3
from my perspective,
yes, I I'd agree with that. And then the
last thing I'll say on extensions, um,
yes, some so then someone could pay for
it themselves for it to get extended,
but the maintenance of that will be on
the city for the rest of time. The
maintenance costs
Right. You're good.
I'm good. Thank you, mayor.
Okay. Well, thank you all. I think that
concludes. Motion to adjurnn.
Move to adjourn.
Second.
This is on the motion to adjourn the
work session. Councelor Mccclure is
absent. Councelor Matise is absent.
Councelor Harris,
yes.
Councelor Bencoml,
yes. Councelor Craran.
Yes.
Councelor Munoz is absent and mayor.
Yes.